Regents and Minors

[Emperor Basil]

Another post prompted a past thought of mine about minors. In CK1 other than the unrest there was usually little problem with having a minor inherit. Here is my suggestion (although I accept in terms of gameplay it is probably a poor one):
When a minor (i.e. some under age) inherits his lands are controlled by his liege lord until he comes of age. If he has no liege lord or he is the liege lord (i.e. king) then his powers are transferred to a family member or powerful vassal who could then misuse his power if he so wished. It would be a very dangerous time for the minor in question because he might be desposed (and killed) or his powers may become devolved. For the realm it would also be a period of likely unrest due to unhappy vassals and ambitious enemies.

The problem with this (other than the implementation issues) are that a player who's character is a minor might find he is powerless, for sometimes years, and may lose the game without any input. Sitting there watching the game unfold could be quite boring...

 

[Spurius]

Another post prompted a past thought of mine about minors. In CK1 other than the unrest there was usually little problem with having a minor inherit. Here is my suggestion (although I accept in terms of gameplay it is probably a poor one):
When a minor (i.e. some under age) inherits his lands are controlled by his liege lord until he comes of age. If he has no liege lord or he is the liege lord (i.e. king) then his powers are transferred to a family member or powerful vassal who could then misuse his power if he so wished. It would be a very dangerous time for the minor in question because he might be desposed (and killed) or his powers may become devolved. For the realm it would also be a period of likely unrest due to unhappy vassals and ambitious enemies.

The problem with this (other than the implementation issues) are that a player who's character is a minor might find he is powerless, for sometimes years, and may lose the game without any input. Sitting there watching the game unfold could be quite boring...

Perhaps the player could take the part of the regent with the option of relinquishing power (and the player changing characters to) the new ruler when he/she became old enough. Of course, some regents should be most reluctant to give up their taste of royal power, and be willing to take some controversial actions to stay there...

 

[RedRooster81]

By adolescence, young lieges in minority should begin (1) preparing to take the throne; and (2) conniving to take the throne early or otherwise do some intriguing in the background. Then of course there is the politics of getting a royal consort for the little liege.

BUT anything is better than the CK1 system of having a 0/0/1/0 three month old ruling the Holy Roman Empire!

PS: anyone know whether medieval succession laws respected posthumous inheritance or if this will be in the game?

 

[Panjer]

I'd love it if there were political battles about who gets to be regent. The queen-regent sleeping with the marshall to ensure his support against the spymaster who also desires the position of regent and so on and so forth.

 

[RedRooster81]

I'd love it if there were political battles about who gets to be regent. The queen-regent sleeping with the marshall to ensure his support against the spymaster who also desires the position of regent and so on and so forth.

ATTN: Developers. Question about personal relationships (still very on-topic): I know that the DV friends and rivals feature has not carried over to CK2. So how will we know about such relationships in the new game? Royal affairs, close friendships, and other bonds that made DV worth the extra money? The -100 to +100 relations meter is fine for things like relations between vassals and with the papacy, etc., but what about two brothers who really hate each others' guts? Or say if the Count of Antioch saved the life of the son of the Emir of Edessa, forming a bond of friendship and indeed a life debt.

So entirely on-topic, how will we know that William d'Evreux, Marshal of England is making late-night calls to the queen regent's bedchamber and that the spymaster Jean le Wallis is a mentor to the fourteen-year-old Jean III Plantagenet? I don't really think that the numbers will be enough. I have suggested having court factions on other threads, to make up the difference. So at this point, just curious, Lord Doomdark.

 

[Emperor Basil]

It would be nice to have a situation like where King Edward III bursts in on Roger Mortimer and his mother (Queen-regent Isabella) to take power.

 

[RedRooster81]

It would be nice to have a situation like where King Edward III bursts in on Roger Mortimer and his mother (Queen-regent Isabella) to take power.

What was the legal age of majority in medieval times? In CK1 it was 16 apparently, but it likely varied from place to place. If the regent is especially disliked or the nobles especially ambitious, why not have an event to end the regency early?

 

[Laur]

What was the legal age of majority in medieval times? In CK1 it was 16 apparently, but it likely varied from place to place. If the regent is especially disliked or the nobles especially ambitious, why not have an event to end the regency early?

Guillaume de Normandie was declared major at 15, though he still needed some time to "convince" some reluctant counts of this indisputable fact. His liege, Phillippe Ie was declared of age at 14 by his mother, Anne de Kiev while the Holy Roman Emperor Heinrich IV was also declared major at 14.

 

[TempestDK]

What was the legal age of majority in medieval times? In CK1 it was 16 apparently, but it likely varied from place to place. If the regent is especially disliked or the nobles especially ambitious, why not have an event to end the regency early?

My guess is that there were no set age where a child was considered to be adult, and it most likely depended on both situation, location and culture (among other factors). Therefore I think it is fine for gaming purposes to keep a single age across the board. CK1 legal age is fine by me.

 

[Spurius]

It would be nice to have a situation like where King Edward III bursts in on Roger Mortimer and his mother (Queen-regent Isabella) to take power.

That's exactly the kind of high drama that would make CK2 more than just another strategy game. For extra impact, there could be an option where the game pauses and gives the first part of the event, e.g. "the young King Edward confronts his regent and demands his power back". A second or two later, the rest appears, either Edward's retainers dragging the regent away to the nearest prison cell or the regent calling in the guards that he had ready, having heard about the plot. There should also of course be the option for a regent to do a Richard III and arrange for the young ruler to have an unfortunate accident.

 

[Emperor Basil]

That's exactly the kind of high drama that would make CK2 more than just another strategy game. For extra impact, there could be an option where the game pauses and gives the first part of the event, e.g. "the young King Edward confronts his regent and demands his power back". A second or two later, the rest appears, either Edward's retainers dragging the regent away to the nearest prison cell or the regent calling in the guards that he had ready, having heard about the plot. There should also of course be the option for a regent to do a Richard III and arrange for the young ruler to have an unfortunate accident.

Or a Empress Eirene and have her son blinded. Although that was unusual even by the time.

 

[RedRooster81]

That's exactly the kind of high drama that would make CK2 more than just another strategy game. For extra impact, there could be an option where the game pauses and gives the first part of the event, e.g. "the young King Edward confronts his regent and demands his power back". A second or two later, the rest appears, either Edward's retainers dragging the regent away to the nearest prison cell or the regent calling in the guards that he had ready, having heard about the plot. There should also of course be the option for a regent to do a Richard III and arrange for the young ruler to have an unfortunate accident.

As much as possible, we should aim at making it feel what it was like to be a medieval liege. So decisions on cases big and small need to be in. "We have your mother, sire. What should we do with her?"

 

[Spurius]

As much as possible, we should aim at making it feel what it was like to be a medieval liege. So decisions on cases big and small need to be in. "We have your mother, sire. What should we do with her?"

As long as the decisions that the player makes matter to the game. Being spammed with trivial events each needing a mouse click isn't a fun experience. Having to weigh up a difficult decision involving two important vassals is interesting and will drive the game forward as the losing party will be more inclined to oppose the ruler, whether by joining the barons demading that royal power be reduced or supporting an outright coup d'etat.

 

[unmerged(109046)]

Pulling off regencies might be an interesting option. My view on it is having minor be the formal title-holder, but all the stats and events relating specifically to the ruler, be executed for a noble (possibly mother, or other living relative) who is marked as a regent for this character.

 

[Nick B II]

EDIT:
I really should read more then the post I'm responding to when I post.

From what Spurius said I assumed we talking about a completely different idea from a completely different thread. So this post was incredibly off-topic and completely missed the point he was getting at.

Oops.

Nick

 

[RedRooster81]

Pulling off regencies might be an interesting option. My view on it is having minor be the formal title-holder, but all the stats and events relating specifically to the ruler, be executed for a noble (possibly mother, or other living relative) who is marked as a regent for this character.

I think that is an idea we can all get behind. If we take the system in CK1 literally, then the ambassador from the Byzantine emperor could get no where with the one-year-old King of Sicily, Roger II "the Babbler."

And please, no more excommunicating infants! That's so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Don_giorgio]

A nice event would be if the King dies unexpectedly while the Queen is pregnant... this could be interesting as a Regent will be appointed till the birth of the baby... If the newborn is a boy he is proclaimed King immediately and the Regent remains till he turns 16... If its a girl then the next in line of succession assumes the throne... (unless u have a law that allows females to rule)...
Also this could lead to some really cool intrigue events if the Regent is corrupted enough or high in the succession line and tries to take the throne for himself...

P.S. it might be a little off topic here but i ll put it down... I d love to have the option to marry off the Queen Dowager with a noble in my court (her secret lover maybe?) or marry her off to someone away if she is a pain in the ass in the court (but without letting her take the children with her) in CKI it was impossible to do so and if she got married (only through AI interference) she takes the children with her... Of course such an action would have some negative effects like spawning suspicion for the children of the late King etc.

 

[unmerged(109046)]

If the heir is posthumous, I'm afraid that - historically enough - he would not actually inherit anything (everything would go to characters that are already alive), but would probably be born with a claim on late father's title. Unless a character is created as soon as the mother is pregnant, and is only invisible until birth - that way inheriting by an unborn child could be possible.

 

[Emperor Basil]

As far as I know this never actually happened although presents an interesting situation. What they would have done would probably depended heavily upon the realm, time, stability and characters involved. It is a somewhat unlikely event though and one that probably isn't worth the scripting.

 

[RedRooster81]

As far as I know this never actually happened although presents an interesting situation. What they would have done would probably depended heavily upon the realm, time, stability and characters involved. It is a somewhat unlikely event though and one that probably isn't worth the scripting.

The big example is Ladislaus the Posthumous (that rolls right off the tongue, eh m8s?), who gained rights over Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, and several other minor realms while still a five-month-old fetus, in 1440. Immediately, after his father Albert II's death he was head of the House of Habsburg, king of Bohemia, and Duke of Austria, but not HRE. In Hungary, the estates elected the King of Poland as Albert's successor there, but Ladislaus's mother, Elizabeth von Luxembourg, stole the Crown of St. Stephen. A lot of intriguing by his older relations followed until he came to majority at age 14. He only lived three years more, when his realm was broken up among different contenders.