Regarding the legal-ese of the Copyright Notice

[Stefan Amaris Jr]

I was never worried about my amateurish writing being 'stolen', was just concerned about the hassle of (technically) having to get permission from Paradox if I wanted to repost it somewhere else in future (and it's entirely possible that if HBS did another game they could have different forums or a different publisher, happens all the time with indie devs).

So I was one of the people asking questions about these terms. But having looked around the various Paradox forums and seeing what people are up to here, as well as their track record in this regard, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable about things - even with the terms remaining as they are.

 

[Kereminde]

Indeed.
The AAR section of the forum is one of the great strength of the Paradox forum.

I may indulge myself with posting one of BattleTech as I do it. And I may try to convince some other talented folk to do it, because in Space Russia there are no tears only broken and shattered BattleMechs.

 

[Brother Diogenes]

This all reminds me of the time when I was nine years old and wrote to a toy company about an action figure idea. I was sent back a very nice letter apologizing for not being able to use the idea of a small child not on their payroll.

But since it'd be prohibitive for the forum mods to thoroughly and routinely purge their site of anything that sounds like creativity, this does seem like the most reasonable alternative.

 

[Alkedamus]

Appreciate you guys taking the time to look into our concerns

 

[TaurianMerc]

Not that I want to sound smug or anything, but over on the old site I did say in my farewell letter, with regard to the legalese

Again, you can always ask; one of the staff was even looking into one of the clauses it just takes patience and a willingness to understand.

/smug mode

 

[Bishop Steiner]

Generally, just the link.
But let's be honest here, Paradox isn't stealing people's fanfic.

They might not be stealing it, but by claiming ownership of it, it does cause a potential issue in the event of the person actually monetizing said stuff in the future, yes? And in the case of FanFic, or Art... those "characters" used on the Forum from being used elsewhere? For instance if Kereminde posted Priam Company stuff here... then got a commission from CGL to write a novel... the Character of "Priam Company" could be a contested property, and thus for sake of potential lawsuit avoidance... not able to be used?

 

[Kereminde]

They might not be stealing it, but by claiming ownership of it, it does cause a potential issue in the event of the person actually monetizing said stuff in the future, yes? And in the case of FanFic, or Art... those "characters" used on the Forum from being used elsewhere? For instance if Kereminde posted Priam Company stuff here... then got a commission from CGL to write a novel... the Character of "Priam Company" could be a contested property, and thus for sake of potential lawsuit avoidance... not able to be used?

Well . . . yes and no. Priam Company is (potentially) already a contested property thanks to me using inspiration from about four to six other people (sometimes real people, not fictional) to make the characters. They're different enough to be their own people, but also similar enough to be a problem. It's nothing I couldn't possibly change, should it come down to it.

Also, Catalyst Game Labs wouldn't commission me to write a novel. Novella maybe, at the most, but I really doubt they're paying attention enough to me to notice. I'd quietly direct them to a couple other people from the old forum rather than myself.

 

[Bishop Steiner]

Well . . . yes and no. Priam Company is (potentially) already a contested property thanks to me using inspiration from about four to six other people (sometimes real people, not fictional) to make the characters. They're different enough to be their own people, but also similar enough to be a problem. It's nothing I couldn't possibly change, should it come down to it.

Also, Catalyst Game Labs wouldn't commission me to write a novel. Novella maybe, at the most, but I really doubt they're paying attention enough to me to notice. I'd quietly direct them to a couple other people from the old forum rather than myself.

Was more using you as a known commodity as an example. I could also have said the same for my own art, or any of a handful of creative content owners here. The point being that if they are claiming ownership of something on these forums, you can pretty much kiss off EVER being able to use them in any future monetized manner. While it is an unlikely turn for most of us, it is still a consideration.

 

[Kereminde]

I also tend to think if someone is good enough to make one thing which they could actually make money off of beyond pocket change? They're also good enough to sit down and come up with another new property. I mean, unless you're Richard Bachmann stealing from Stephen King (or was it the other way around).

 

[Bishop Steiner]

I also tend to think if someone is good enough to make one thing which they could actually make money off of beyond pocket change? They're also good enough to sit down and come up with another new property. I mean, unless you're Richard Bachmann stealing from Stephen King (or was it the other way around).

again, kind of missing the point.

 

[Kereminde]

again, kind of missing the point.

Possibly.

But I would seriously advise people who want to go into even casual writing and might someday want to monetize their material to find themselves a place to post it. Do some research and find a hosting service which can be used, find one which isn't going to remotely claim "this is mine now". Then in the case of this forum or any other someone may want to use, put it up outside the forum first, then post it. (I don't think Paradox can successfully claim copy rights over something posted elsewhere first and reposted on their service; they most definitely can demand you remove it though.)

Also, well, if someone ever wants to monetize their work they really should take a week to sit down and figure out the copyright laws for where they live. Not doing so is . . . dangerous in terms of liability. Now, I'm an anomaly, in the sense of I've dealt with this sort of thing in the past and the advice above was what was passed down to me as an example of "more work now makes it easier on you later". I'm also not a lawyer, nor do I have the time to go find one to consult the EULA here and elsewhere to determine legality. (Though I would also quickly advise doing so if you're serious about trying to make money off writing anything remotely possible as a derived work.)

And this is all said assuming what the EULA Paradox forums uses can indeed be applied in the fashion discussed above. Something tells me this is the one IP their legal team may not want to poke with a stick. Probably related to Synchronous Pyrite or whatever they call themselves making claims again.

 

[Bishop Steiner]

Possibly.

But I would seriously advise people who want to go into even casual writing and might someday want to monetize their material to find themselves a place to post it. Do some research and find a hosting service which can be used, find one which isn't going to remotely claim "this is mine now". Then in the case of this forum or any other someone may want to use, put it up outside the forum first, then post it. (I don't think Paradox can successfully claim copy rights over something posted elsewhere first and reposted on their service; they most definitely can demand you remove it though.)

Also, well, if someone ever wants to monetize their work they really should take a week to sit down and figure out the copyright laws for where they live. Not doing so is . . . dangerous in terms of liability. Now, I'm an anomaly, in the sense of I've dealt with this sort of thing in the past and the advice above was what was passed down to me as an example of "more work now makes it easier on you later". I'm also not a lawyer, nor do I have the time to go find one to consult the EULA here and elsewhere to determine legality. (Though I would also quickly advise doing so if you're serious about trying to make money off writing anything remotely possible as a derived work.)

And this is all said assuming what the EULA Paradox forums uses can indeed be applied in the fashion discussed above. Something tells me this is the one IP their legal team may not want to poke with a stick. Probably related to Synchronous Pyrite or whatever they call themselves making claims again.

PDX might not push it or want to test it. The point is though the simple possibility thereof would make any such work that COULD be contested radioactive to any other publisher, so unless they felt it was the next Halo or Hunger Games or Star Wars and worth a potentially long expensive legal battle (even if only in theory) they will pass. And any niche company, like CGL? Absolutely would never risk the potential for liability and litigation. THAT is the point I am trying to make.

That ANYTHING you may remotely consider trying to sell/monetize in the future, do NOT post here. There is a reason I have posted only DERIVATIVE art on here, as I can't potentially use that in the future for myself, anyhow.

 

[Kereminde]

And any niche company, like CGL? Absolutely would never risk the potential for liability and litigation. THAT is the point I am trying to make.

I don't think it's limited to 'niche companies', myself; larger companies might take a look, run the math, and decide to take a chance. But I expect in any case of this, a company outside Paradox would likely want something freshly created with no potential entanglements. Simply to be absolutely sure.

 

[Bishop Steiner]

a company outside Paradox would likely want something freshly created with no potential entanglements. Simply to be absolutely sure.

which is exactly the point I've been making?

 

[Kereminde]

which is exactly the point I've been making?

Yeah, we're not exactly disagreeing here on the broader scope of the implications. It's the narrower ones I wince and start thinking on, and going "I dunno..."

 

[Zavia]

I also tend to think if someone is good enough to make one thing which they could actually make money off of beyond pocket change? They're also good enough to sit down and come up with another new property. I mean, unless you're Richard Bachmann stealing from Stephen King (or was it the other way around).

Thats not true. Creativity does not translate into legal awareness. It happens. I enjoy browsing writingprompt reddit, and thr quality of the stuff written is mindblowing. And Im absolutely sure if reddit tries to claim it under a copyright, they and many other subreddits will explode in protest.


Wasn't this thread discussed in the other forum and also in the past here?

 

[Kereminde]

Thats not true. Creativity does not translate into legal awareness. It happens. I enjoy browsing writingprompt reddit, and thr quality of the stuff written is mindblowing. And Im absolutely sure if reddit tries to claim it under a copyright, they and many other subreddits will explode in protest.

You misunderstand me. I meant that having creativity, and talent, one is more likely to be able to produce more than a "one hit wonder". It has little to do with legalities other than "oh, I can't use those? I can come up with something else".

Your mileage may vary, since there are ample examples of successful creative types not getting out of a "paint by numbers" arrangement, but . . .