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AjayAlcos

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After playing extensively since the release of Waking the Tiger, the thing that seems to have unfortunately most caught my eye are the background traits of these two:

ktyJwMB.jpg


For those keen-eyed history buffs, the most aberrant pieces of info that can garnered from these images is the addition of the Cautious personality trait to both these individuals. If memory serves me right, their actual counterparts in reality were quite the opposite; in particular Walter Model.

I shall start however with Rokossovsky. The only things that, albeit vaguely, might warrant him being given the aforementioned trait is that he to some degree cared about the lives of his men (at least compared to other Soviet commanders i.e. Zhukov) as well a close call during Citadel when on one night during the midst of the battle his headquarters was hit by a German bomber, him only escaping with his life on a whim. After that incident I believe he setup his HQ in an underground bunker close to a church or monastery. On the other hand, he was known to be insubordinate when the situation warranted as seen in his actions in Dubna and Moscow. Onto Model, the idea that he was "cautious" I find to be amusing. In actuality he was just as, if not moreso, reckless as say Erwin Rommel; a general who also preferred to lead from the front. I assume the main reason he was given that trait in the game was because of an occurrence during Market Garden:

When he was having lunch with his fellow bemonocled CGS Hans Krebs at the Hotel Hartenstein, he received reports of British paratroopers landing in the outskirts of nearby Arnhem, just 3 kilometres away from the hotel. At first he thought that he himself as well his staff were the target of a raid. When informed of the scale of the landings though (unsurprising considering Market Garden is the largest airborne operation in history) he rapidly surmised that it was the beginning of the main Allied offensive.

Back on topic, I do understand the reduction in planning speed given to them as both Model and Rokossovsky were extremely meticulous when it came to operational and strategic planning. I therefore advise the addition of a "Meticulous" trait which keeps the reduction in planning speed whilst replacing the injury chance modifier with a max planning bonus of at least +10.00%.

---
What may not be as noticeable is the
Brilliant_Strategist.png
Brilliant Strategist trait as assigned to Model. Make no mistake, Model like Rokossovsky, Patton and Rommel were indeed regarded then and to this day as some of WW2's best commanders; Model's management in stabilising the Rzhev salient probably being the most noteworthy. So while the trait is indeed applicable in Rokossovsky's case I would give Model the Inflexible Strategist trait, despite the name's connotations (Model can hardly be called inflexible), as his aptitude lay more in defensive warfare; as evidenced by his actions and achievements in the Rzhev meat-grinder and in the Hürtgen. I would further recommend he be given the Harsh Leader trait to better represent his notorious leadership style.

Any thoughts?
 
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puppet on a string

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i agree about model; the 'inflexible' name is indeed not ideal for him, but what the trait represents does make sense

the soviet guy i know less about so can't comment

in addition, i do think italo balbo should be a field marshal (he was a marshal, and was also the 2nd highest ranking person behind mussolini) and be given the 'media personality' and 'charismatic' traits
 

AjayAlcos

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i agree about model; the 'inflexible' name is indeed not ideal for him, but what the trait represents does make sense

the soviet guy i know less about so can't comment

in addition, i do think italo balbo should be a field marshal (he was a marshal, and was also the 2nd highest ranking person behind mussolini) and be given the 'media personality' and 'charismatic' traits

Indeed, especially considering he was on the cover of Time magazine.
 

puppet on a string

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sorry to post here again, but someone who i think is severely ignored currently is the soviet general vasily chuikov

he should have better stats than 1, and be given the following traits: 'urban assault specialist', 'war hero', 'reckless' and 'infantry leader'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Chuikov
 

CarlvonClauswitz

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Model on the Eastern Front was known for preferring defensive battles and was hesitant to go on the attack like with Operation Citadel. Perhaps cautious may not be the best trait for him but maybe something related to "defensive"?

What really irks me is he is a Field Marshall in 1936 in game when in reality he wasn't a general yet.
 

Liquid Sky

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Model was the German commander during Operation Market Garden that thought all those paratroopers were landing to take him captive. So instead of reacting to the battle, he ran to another HQ
 

CrazyZombie

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sorry to post here again, but someone who i think is severely ignored currently is the soviet general vasily chuikov

he should have better stats than 1, and be given the following traits: 'urban assault specialist', 'war hero', 'reckless' and 'infantry leader'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Chuikov
In 1936 most of current Soviet commanders are either no-names, who shouldn't be actual commander at all, or too overpowered/downgraded for 1936.

Not only Soviets, in fact. That is more a systematic problem.
 

CarlvonClauswitz

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In 1936 most of current Soviet commanders are either no-names, who shouldn't be actual commander at all, or too overpowered/downgraded for 1936.

Not only Soviets, in fact. That is more a systematic problem.

I have had only played as the soviets once in a 1936 play through. Don't half the generals get purged or go through the civil war and they are lost for good?

Wouldn't that balance out?
 

CrazyZombie

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I have had only played as the soviets once in a 1936 play through. Don't half the generals get purged or go through the civil war and they are lost for good?

Wouldn't that balance out?
Problem is that 2/3rd of the list should appear only AFTER the Purge, as taking "vacant" places, let's say, by event, and on their places before should be different persons. You can actually check my suggestion topic about them.
 

CarlvonClauswitz

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Problem is that 2/3rd of the list should appear only AFTER the Purge, as taking "vacant" places, let's say, by event, and on their places before should be different persons. You can actually check my suggestion topic about them.

In this game a lot of generals that got army commanding positions did so in the height of the war but are available in game much sooner to give it a WW2 feel. Look at the Americans. Eisenhower was a major in January 1936 but made general in 1941. Same with Mark Clark.

Consider the generals and admirals a pop culture element of the game.
 

CrazyZombie

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In this game a lot of generals that got army commanding positions did so in the height of the war but are available in game much sooner to give it a WW2 feel. Look at the Americans. Eisenhower was a major in January 1936 but made general in 1941. Same with Mark Clark.

Consider the generals and admirals a pop culture element of the game.
I know, I know, but it is really odd for the state, where one of major events is Purge of officers (IRL things were much more complex) to not care about actuall OOB for 1936 just as take most portraits from 50-60-s (and some even 70-s).
 

AjayAlcos

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Model was the German commander during Operation Market Garden that thought all those paratroopers were landing to take him captive. So instead of reacting to the battle, he ran to another HQ
Your assertion is inaccurate. He did react immediately to the battle by evacuating his HQ, something any competent commander at his level would do when one considers:

A. His HQ held troves of valuable intel.
B. Almost the entire staff of Army Group B was at that very location.
C. They were only 3km away from the enemy.​

Even for forward/tactical divisional HQ, having your HQ just 3km away from the enemy is in most cases needlessly hazardous. However Model wasn't a simple divisional commander, and his HQ didn't command 1 division but at the very least 13. If he somehow took leave of his senses, the entire operations of Army Group B would've been neutralised in one fell sweep and Operation Market Garden could well have been an Allied success. Instead he did the sensible thing by travelling directly to the closest secure HQ, that of II SS Panzer Corps at Doetinchem, where he promptly took direct control of the situation unfolding at Arnhem. Needless to say, by the 25th Arnhem was secured and the Allied operation was in shambles.

Problem is that 2/3rd of the list should appear only AFTER the Purge, as taking "vacant" places, let's say, by event, and on their places before should be different persons. You can actually check my suggestion topic about them.

In this game a lot of generals that got army commanding positions did so in the height of the war but are available in game much sooner to give it a WW2 feel. Look at the Americans. Eisenhower was a major in January 1936 but made general in 1941. Same with Mark Clark.

Consider the generals and admirals a pop culture element of the game.

I can't help but feel that historical commanders that were not yet commanders at the start date should instead be selected from a list showing recruitable commanders, on-top of the choice of generating some random general. That way one can get past the ahistoricity regarding the incorrect dates these figures attained their respective ranks.
 
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AjayAlcos

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He left because he was being cautious
And by that act which is simply common procedure for commanders of his rank believe Model, as represented in the game, should unjustifiably be penalised with a -20.0% reduction in planning speed?
 

Misaka_Complex

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I think "Cautious" is better represented by the "Thorough Planner" trait. Being cautious doesn't mean that you plan slower, it means that you advance slower but steadier in your time of attack and both Model and Rokko took extra time to plan so that should mean an increase in maximum planning bonus. I think cautious should have a penalty to division speed during an attack when taking enemy provinces but have increased planning bonus.