Regarding Habitats.

[Flame13223]

Looks to me like I do something horribly wrong on all my playthroughs, I lack neither districts nor building slots but simply population to fill everything.

Pop growth is king in the new system. I lack pops usually too but there are ways to mitigate these things. Settling multiple worlds at once, going Expansion traditions first, picking every pop growth modifier that you can and resettling pops is a good way to get a healthy distribution of pops across your planets.

 

[Acheron]

Pop growth is king in the new system. I lack pops usually too but there are ways to mitigate these things. Settling multiple worlds at once, going Expansion traditions first, picking every pop growth modifier that you can and resettling pops is a good way to get a healthy distribution of pops across your planets.

And immigration, that does seem to help, too.

 

[Arcvalons]

Habitats could also be like mini-ecumenopoli, I guess. The same districts and all, but just 6.

 

[Matoro_TBS]

Habitats seem ironically to be very bad at science and trade, since you cannot build those buildings there - only districts. If you could build any buildings there, habitats full of residential districts and buildings slots would be pretty good for advanced buildings. Sure, right now they work good enough for alloy and CG production, but not much else.

 

[Losttruppen]

Habitats could also be like mini-ecumenopoli, I guess. The same districts and all, but just 6

Why have 2 ascension perks that do the same thing and unlock at pretty much the same time? I think this is their main problem actually, everything habitats can do, ecumenopoli do better. A size 8 ecumenopolis with half the building slots towards research is still better than a research habitat while also giving great districts. They need a defined roll of their own.

 

[Amorenkaire]

One thing I think should be said about habitats is that it doesn't make sense with their alloy model from a gameplay perspective.

With 2.2, they wanted to separate economic spending and military spending with minerals and alloys. All sources of economic development come from minerals, your mining and research stations, buildings, districts, etc. Alloys are largely used for your fleet and, in the early game, expansion (my guess is to provide a choice between rushing conquests made by others, or expanding your own area to gain a stronger economy at the risk of being vulnerable).

Habitats feel awkward, then. Megastructures cost alloys, but they're mid to late game investments. Habitats can be your first ascension perk if you bum rush star fortress technology, but at that point you're probably trying to make certain that the other empires around you don't attack, or still expanding, so you won't have the alloys to spare for the 'nice' but not 'impactful' expansion they give you, UNLESS you're critically short of strategic resources and thus need a good place to plop down a bunch of refineries when your planets can't spare them. But in that situation, you're probably not exactly swimming with alloys if you can't support t2/t3 forges.

 

[Amorenkaire]

Why have 2 ascension perks that do the same thing and unlock at pretty much the same time? I think this is their main problem actually, everything habitats can do, ecumenopoli do better. A size 8 ecumenopolis with half the building slots towards research is still better than a research habitat while also giving great districts. They need a defined roll of their own.

I'd still love to see habitats structured around orbital development around colonized planets - with habitats over uncolonized planets specializing around resource harvesting from the body they're around. Like a mega, pop-fueled version of mining/research stations.

 

[Defiler99]

Out of curiosity; is there a current build that doesn't have its growth stunted by taking Voidborne?
If I rush it, it competes for alloys with shipbuilding during a crucial period. If I take it later, I've likely already "won" before a decent number of them are up and running.
I've been taking Mastery of Nature instead, even though I rarely use the Decision it unlocks.

 

[Bouchart]

You probably shouldn't rush Voidborne. Habitats cost a good amount of influence and at that stage of the game it's usually better to expand into new system and build a colony.

 

[Flame13223]

Out of curiosity; is there a current build that doesn't have its growth stunted by taking Voidborne?
If I rush it, it competes for alloys with shipbuilding during a crucial period. If I take it later, I've likely already "won" before a decent number of them are up and running.
I've been taking Mastery of Nature instead, even though I rarely use the Decision it unlocks.

You can ignore it completely and have an okay build. Mastery of Nature can be pretty darn good to make more housing on planets so you dont need to use up buildings slots. Executive vigor can help you a lot with the influence costs for mineral and energy edicts and energy costs on campaigns running constantly, also useful later with unity ambitions.

 

[romios187]

Habitats seem ironically to be very bad at science and trade, since you cannot build those buildings there - only districts. If you could build any buildings there, habitats full of residential districts and buildings slots would be pretty good for advanced buildings. Sure, right now they work good enough for alloy and CG production, but not much else.

I totally agree here but habitats are not meant to operate or compete on the same level as planets. They are meant to improve the latter by freeing up building slots making planets more efficient. Example is research focus habi (2-0-6-0 districts) with 3 building slots left after managing amenities, robo production (if you need any) and institute, plus 3 more housing to spare - a prime candidate for refineries (or fortresses - they provide housing too). And agri habi (I just checked, but as barbaric despoiler ) produce 132 food WITHOUT bonuses from 11 farms using 8 districts and housing 50 pop + 1 merchant at 0 housing left! That is a COMPLETE habitat. 51 pop here (just agri one) is a limit and this one if efficient! Meaning somewhere few planets are freed up from 11 agri districts. Even if those planets are food-rich, once I Voidborne (and I always do) I move that food production onto newly constructed habitat. Planet utilizes other type of districts or goes for ecumenopolis.

Ringworlds take too long to construct plus extra perks (not to mention the cost) to wait while habitat is an early solution that stays with you till the end. Later on just reshape it as you see fit to satisfy sudden demands. Use it as buffer for extra pop - they need to work somewhere anyway. Habitats also can help in robot assembling. The list goes on...

This way I don't understand how a 1 perk worth "half-planet" is not doing its job! Relatively fast to build with 100% habitability it is situational yearly, yes. But taking you out of that dire situation saying: "Here, take my hand. We make it through." doesn't make it great? An artificial space structure I always respect!

 

[DonKeeOT]

I totally agree here but habitats are not meant to operate or compete on the same level as planets. They are meant to improve the latter by freeing up building slots making planets more efficient. Example is research focus habi (2-0-6-0 districts) with 3 building slots left after managing amenities, robo production (if you need any) and institute, plus 3 more housing to spare - a prime candidate for refineries (or fortresses - they provide housing too). And agri habi (I just checked, but as barbaric despoiler ) produce 132 food WITHOUT bonuses from 11 farms using 8 districts and housing 50 pop + 1 merchant at 0 housing left! That is a COMPLETE habitat. 51 pop here (just agri one) is a limit and this one if efficient! Meaning somewhere few planets are freed up from 11 agri districts. Even if those planets are food-rich, once I Voidborne (and I always do) I move that food production onto newly constructed habitat. Planet utilizes other type of districts or goes for ecumenopolis.

Ringworlds take too long to construct plus extra perks (not to mention the cost) to wait while habitat is an early solution that stays with you till the end. Later on just reshape it as you see fit to satisfy sudden demands. Use it as buffer for extra pop - they need to work somewhere anyway. Habitats also can help in robot assembling. The list goes on...

This way I don't understand how a 1 perk worth "half-planet" is not doing its job! Relatively fast to build with 100% habitability it is situational yearly, yes. But taking you out of that dire situation saying: "Here, take my hand. We make it through." doesn't make it great? An artificial space structure I always respect!

I agree for tall builds habitats are useful for the reasons you say, and I don't think they are a wasted AP (there are a number of other APs that are worse) but if you are playing wide and you have plenty of planets already then there isn't much point using them. I think part of the problem is that they used to be extremely powerful and have been repeatedly nerfed, so there isn't so much love for them anymore.

 

[romios187]

Not only tall builds. They are good all around: bad start with poor planets? Habitats! Planets are few but bad? Habitats! I might sound repeatable but... Some planets, few large one too, but full of food? Habitats! I grow so fast so where to send all that pop in quick term? Habitats!

See? So many options to employ this magnificent thing not to mention the usual one. I see no reason why Voidborne is a waste this way

Edit: I might sound fanatic about habitats but I really love them. Can't imagine any playthrough without those. They add flexibility, let you focus PLANETS. The rest is habitat concern

 

[DonKeeOT]

Not only tall builds. They are good all around: bad start with poor planets? Habitats! Planets are few but bad? Habitats! I might sound repeatable but... Some planets, few large one too, but full of food? Habitats! I grow so fast so where to send all that pop in quick term? Habitats!

See? So many options to employ this magnificent thing not to mention the usual once. I see no reason why Voidborne is a waste this way

ok fair enough -its a valid approach - but for me the alloy and influence cost is too high until fairly late in the game and better spent elsewhere.

 

[Retry]

Not only tall builds. They are good all around: bad start with poor planets? Habitats! Planets are few but bad? Habitats! I might sound repeatable but... Some planets, few large one too, but full of food? Habitats! I grow so fast so where to send all that pop in quick term? Habitats!

See? So many options to employ this magnificent thing not to mention the usual once. I see no reason why Voidborne is a waste this way

Last I checked, Habitats have an alloy upkeep now. If your "bad planets" are bad because they can't produce much minerals and you need them, a Habitat's just going to exacerbate the problem. In this case the influence and alloys would have better been used building a fleet and declaring war on a weaker neighbour to either take subjugate them and integrate them later or annex territory (+ a few planets) entirely.

 

[Xephos Demonslayer]

Nah. Alloy costs are OK. Influence cost, on the other hand...

I feel like habitats are very niche to begin with. I think they're ok for the very specifc role they fit into (mini planets meant to provide extra room and some refined resource production/a really big fort in space/extra room for farming), and if you don't like them, don't pick the perk. But if you're going to make the things cost alloys, cut the influence costs to 50, or at the very least make master builders also cut their influence cost to 50. I use too much influence to be spending 100 influence for 1 habitat.

 

[romios187]

Lack I checked, Habitats have an alloy upkeep now. If your "bad planets" are bad because they can't produce much minerals and you need them, a Habitat's just going to exacerbate the problem. In this case the influence and alloys would have better been used building a fleet and declaring war on a weaker neighbour to either take subjugate them and integrate them later or annex territory (+ a few planets) entirely.

I cannot but agree here too. Dire situation means you almost screwed in terms of settlements or early start. Here habitats are the counterweights. Pops wont be unemployed here because you lack natural resources. They trade and grow food for trade. That is basic example.

Concerning alloys and influence. You don't rush those really! I got 5 in year 2380 or so (plus 3 planets). By that time you are good on alloys and other things. But the 1st habitat was costly, yes. Though it helped me survive food problem with just 2 planets available (1 was tomb world, so you figure)

So consider this. What I want to tell and tried to do it from start is that habitats cannot replace planets in any case. You just simply can't. You can compensate in some ways, stove of your demise to rise like phoenix... Later on put habitats to better use if not already. They help you all the time if built.

3k alloys yearly on is big. But you don't go for habitat this yearly. Secure boarders first, get used to those sucky worlds of yours (if any) only then move to habitat! I don't promote to rush for it or spam it. Build those when you feel you can. Its just so better to have habitats all way along

EDIT: I am not very good at providing validate arguments maybe. But every run I do building habitats is those are actually doing stuff. Early - they are useful. Later - not so but still efficient. They are part of what I am used to and they don't suck at it. Other great reliabilities like ecumenopolis or ringwords require more resources like I mentioned before. And here you get what you need yearly on but in somewhat limited space.

 

[mcolder]

Habitats do not suck, they are more specialized now.

I easily get to about 60 pops per habitat. I like Research habitats especially if you have a Research Institute and a Science ship to pump up output. That frees up space you can use for other things on your raw resource producting planets. You can also unload Alloy and Consumer Goods production with a Ministry of Production and that is the mini Ecumenopolis that people have mentioned. And of course you can turn them into Commerce Hubs with Stock Exchange for great Trade Value production. Spamming fortress on them as also mentioned is absolutely great for both chokepoint block and Naval Capacity. Last but not least Gestalt can use them differently and more akin to old habitats especially since they can build housing buildings which to me seems a bit odd but there it is. Can get them pretty populous that way. 3000 alloys isn’t too bad either considering it’s basically two battleships worth... the influence cost could be better..

 

[Zardnaar]

They are good, the main problem is housing due to only being able to build housing districts. THey have 2 main yses.

1. Science/Fortess. If you build 2 housing districts, 6 science ones, a research institure and then fill the rest up with fortresses (which have housing), tou end up with hard to crack fortess worlds. Throw in a planetary shield generator.

2. Space refineries/production. You probably want to only build housing districts. Building alloy forge and consumer goods buildings along with some of the unity ones will provide jobs. You could also do this and make food but farms won't provide that many jobs but its an option. Farting out unity is another option replacing science districts with unity and building temples etc.

Note that if you are space communist you use a lot less housing, slavers can probably do it as well (I dont play slavers). You can take the trai and Byzantine Bureaucracy and only use up 30% housing so you can cram pops into habitats.

The other use is Hives. Hives can build the hive equivalent of housing on habitats. This makes them as good as any other planet except for producing basic resources.

 

[anamiac]

I've been thinking about making a mod that changes some of the buildings and jobs, for balance reasons. For instance, I was going to buff medical workers to provide 1 stability each because as it currently stands Gene Clinics take too long to return investment. I'm not sure exactly what to do with habitats. I would like them to have more uses than they currently do. One idea I was thinking of was to make the available district types the same as the ringworld district types.