Reforming the (western) Roman Empire

[Victor Tadeu]

I was reading how to reform the Roman Empire by the DLC... but I really didn't like how it is done and think it's very inappropriate.

First off: you dont reform it by playing Rome or not even in Italy... it's a Byzantine Empire decision, and still one very difficulty to achieve or at least very late game. I know, makes sense for the Byzantines to reform the Roman Empire if they capture the previous western part of the empire, but I really think that should be an option for the western provinces to reform the western Roman Empire and that one, like Byzantine, should have an option to reform the original Roman Empire if it recapture whe eastern provinces.

I was going to start a game in Italy where my main focus was to reform the empire... but it was when I read the DLC details that I noticed it problems... Plus, to make things more challenging, I was planing to redo a hellenic Roman Empire, but the decision to reform the Empire MUST be christian, so neither a hellenic Byzantine Empire could do it...

Does CK2Plus change it? If not, there is a compatible submod who does it? If none of the both, that's a suggestion then: be able to reform the Westertn Roman Empire while playing with italian kingoms.

 

[Slayen]

CK2+ does change the decision, yes.

It is available to anyone with with following titles:

        has_landed_title = e_byzantium
         has_landed_title = e_latin_empire
         has_landed_title = e_italy
         has_landed_title = e_hre
         has_landed_title = e_karling

and faiths:

        religion_group = christian
         religion = hellenic_pagan

So yes, you can do a hellanic revival of the Roman Empire in ck2+.

As for the Western Roman Empire thing, basically both the Carolingian and Holy Roman Empire fill in that role already.

Here's the code for both if you want to compare

Vanilla:

  restore_roman_empire = {
     is_high_prio = yes
     potential = {
       has_dlc = "Legacy of Rome"
       has_landed_title = e_byzantium
       religion_group = christian
       age = 16
       prisoner = no
       NOT = { trait = incapable }
       NOT = { has_global_flag = rome_restored }
     }
     allow = {
       primary_title = { title = e_byzantium }
       prestige = 3000
       completely_controls = d_latium
       completely_controls = d_venice
       completely_controls = d_ferrara
       completely_controls = d_sicily
       completely_controls = d_genoa
       completely_controls = d_capua
       completely_controls = d_apulia
       completely_controls = d_thrace
       completely_controls = d_antioch
       completely_controls = d_jerusalem
       completely_controls = d_alexandria
       completely_controls = d_athens
       completely_controls = d_tunis
       completely_controls = d_croatia
     }
     effect = {
       set_global_flag = rome_restored
       narrative_event = { id = LoR.20 tooltip = EVTTOOLTIPLoR.20 }
     }
     ai_will_do = {
       factor = 1
     }
   }

CK2+

  restore_roman_empire = {
     is_high_prio = yes
     potential = {
       has_dlc = "Legacy of Rome"
       OR = {
         has_landed_title = e_byzantium
         has_landed_title = e_latin_empire
         has_landed_title = e_italy
         has_landed_title = e_hre
         has_landed_title = e_karling
       }
       independent = yes
       has_regent = no
       NOT = { has_global_flag = rome_restored }
       OR = {
         religion_group = christian
         religion = hellenic_pagan
       }
     }
     allow = {
       prestige = 3000
       completely_controls = d_latium
       completely_controls = d_venice
       completely_controls = d_ferrara
       completely_controls = d_sicily
       completely_controls = d_genoa
       completely_controls = d_capua
       completely_controls = d_apulia
       completely_controls = d_thrace
       completely_controls = d_karvuna
       completely_controls = d_adrianopolis
       completely_controls = d_turnovo
       completely_controls = d_antioch
       completely_controls = d_jerusalem
       completely_controls = d_alexandria
       completely_controls = d_athens
       completely_controls = d_tunis
       completely_controls = d_croatia
     }
     effect = {
       narrative_event = { id = LoR.20 tooltip = EVTTOOLTIPLoR.20 }
     }
     ai_will_do = {
       factor = 1
     }
   }

 

[Victor Tadeu]

This is great! Much better than vanilla one!

But I kinda think it still dont hit the spot of Western Roman Empire... both Carolingian Empire and HRE are not even in Italy, and I was more about recreate a, well, a roman Western Roman Empire. From Rome itself. Just like the Byzantines can go to reform the greater Roman Empire, I think playing in the western part, precisely Italy, should have a step like that: need to first reform the Western Empire (equivalent to the byzantines) and then go to the greater Empire, just like the Byzantines, where both empires will necessarily clash each other.

While I think to reform the greater Roman Empire you should control the greek and the latin provinces, Antioch, Jerusalem, Tunis and Alexandria feels kinda out of the scope to me. You may earn a claim in them, but not necessarily control them, even more if you are trying the hellenic path where the christians holy places doesn't matter much to you. For the christian I think it makes sense, so they can mend the schism, but a hellenic one won't have this in mind, after all they have no schism to mend.

I think to reform the Western Roman Empire you must be italian and control the whole Italy, including Rome and the Byzantine controlled provinces, so you will have to clash the strong Byzantines and, if you are not the papal states yourself, you will have to defy the pope. But to keep things even more challenging, you should not be Lombardy, after all it's a kingdom founded by barbarians. So I think it's a good fun challenge for experienced players: challenge both of the strongest realms of the early game, Lombardy and Byzantine, defy the pope (if you are not him yourself), and eventually conquer the whole Italy: them you can reform the Western Roman Empire. But once you does it, there still work ahead, since you can go to mend the schism and reform the greater Roman Empire just like the Byzantines can or, if you are hellenic, just reform the greater Roman Empire without mending the schism. Since the hellenics don't need to reform the schism, so no need to go for the christian holly places in Middle East and North Africa.

Creating the events to form the new nation is no big challenge to me, I could do it by myself if I need, but what I don't know how to do is create a whole new formable nation, the Western Roman Empire, it own decisions and it flavor. Even so I "copy paste" the Byzantine Empire with new name, flag, color, etc, something I still need to learn how to do but is way easier than do from scratch, I would need to change the whole flavour of the new nation to latin instead of greek, names, decisions, especial military unit and such. It's kinda daunting to me, but I do think is a good addition to the game.

I will wait to see if the devs of CK2+ likes the idea and implements it or if any other experienced modder would like to do it. Otherwise, I think I may try for myself to create a submod of Western Roman Empire for CK2+, but since it will be a whole new learning to me and with work and college I dont have much time, it may take a while. So if people can point me out some tutorials, I will be very glad!

 

[schwarherz]

I can't speak for the rest of the dev team, but I've already done all the tweaking of the Roman Empire that I intend to.

 

[Victor Tadeu]

So it's better if I ask first:

Is ok if I do this submod? It will be CK2+ exclusive since I like this mod and I want the hellenic to be in with the work you guys already did, but since I'm not a competent modder and will be learning while I do, most of the mod may come to be adaptations of the work CK2+ team already did instead of work of my own doing from scratch. If I'm the one who tries it, I intend to create a specific thread for the mod, while even before I posting anything to download, I would be posting things like "guys, I edited file X. Is that ok? Who does I need the permission and to give credits to?".

 

[schwarherz]

Don't even worry about asking. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/ck2plus-usage-policy.851272/ <---- just read that

EDIT: And, actually, since you're doing a submod, don't even worry about that unless you're pulling material from outside the mod, in which case you'd just have to ask the person you're pulling from.

 

[Nasdaq]

Hmm, seems odd. Every time I try to trigger the decision, it destroys the title I have (e_italy) but does not give me the e_roman_empire title. I attempted to manually give the title, to see if it would work, but while the console will give me the yes, title given, it never shows up.

 

[MileHigh]

I have the same problem as Nasdaq but as Byzantines. And additionally all my vassals become independent.

 

[Rylock]

I had this issue reported before -- that using the decision to create the Roman Empire would destroy your current title but not actually give you the e_roman_empire title. That was on an earlier version, but after putting in the de jure empire fix the decision worked just fine. The next person who reported it was using an old save, so again not an issue per se.

If someone is using a current version of the mod and the decision is still not working, that'd be worth knowing about...though I'm not sure how it could be happening, as I just went into the game, set up the decision and used it and it worked fine.

 

[MileHigh]

Tried it again myself and the problem was still there. Could this be related to the fact that I don't own Horse Lords? On second thoughts, maybe I do have that previous version still installed as I checked and hadn't ordered CK+ from steam workshop. I now ordered it from workshop (I guess I installed CK+ from the forum) and now, when I'm launching CKII and have the ability to enable mods, I see two CKPlus boxes. If I really do have the old version - which is what I'm leaning onto now - can I just update CK+ and keep playing my old save or do I have to start again (i.e. are the versions save compatible). And additionally, do I have to deinstall the previous CK+ and reinstall it from steam workshop? It seems that the workshop CK+ doesn't install itself, it just stalls. Sorry for the bother and thanks

 

[Rylock]

Tried it again myself and the problem was still there. Could this be related to the fact that I don't own Horse Lords? On second thoughts, maybe I do have that previous version still installed as I checked and hadn't ordered CK+ from steam workshop. I now ordered it from workshop (I guess I installed CK+ from the forum) and now, when I'm launching CKII and have the ability to enable mods, I see two CKPlus boxes. If I really do have the old version - which is what I'm leaning onto now - can I just update CK+ and keep playing my old save or do I have to start again (i.e. are the versions save compatible). And additionally, do I have to deinstall the previous CK+ and reinstall it from steam workshop? It seems that the workshop CK+ doesn't install itself, it just stalls. Sorry for the bother and thanks

Personally, I would delete all your Plus files and reinstall, just to make sure you have the current version.

As for whether or not it'll work for an old save, it depends on whether e_roman_empire is already inactive in that save. I'm not certain what makes it inactive, but it seems to be related to the de jure empire issue we were having -- as both e_roman_empire and e_persia, which we were both having issues with, were fixed once we added the de jure fix. You can fix that by editing your save, but that really depends on how comfortable with that kind of editing.

If you start a new game, and have the correct checksum for the current version, and you still have trouble with the decision, that I'd need to know, like I mentioned. Then it means the problem with the inactive empire persists, and is separate from the de jure empire issue.