Reformed Germanic > Asatru

[GothicEmperor]

Right now in HIP* the Reformed Germanic faith is called 'Asatru'. Considering this isn't just the Norse faith anymore, giving it a Norse name is a bit odd.
Also, I don't agree with it stylistically; it's a modern name for it, associated with neo-paganism, and doesn't quite fit in the game, at least in my mind. (definitely not when I start as Charlemagne and reform the faith as a Frank ) In what localisation file is this bit located, so I can at least change it for myself?

*I'm just using VIET events, Viet traits, CPR and NBRT light.

 

[Lord of Pain]

Religions.csv

 

[GothicEmperor]

I found it in VIET_Religion.csv. Funnily enough, it still contains the localisation for the old VIET Hindu and Buddhist faiths.

 

[zijistark]

And what would you suggest that it is called?

[ And VIET should not be localising religions w/o Immersion. Ahem. ]

 

[Caoimhin]

"Forn Siðr" ? I did a quick wiki, Icelandic for "Old Custom". Asatru is a poor substitute, mainly because it ignores the Vanir pantheon in its name choosing instead to imply only the Aesir.

 

[GothicEmperor]

Asatru is a poor substitute, mainly because it ignores the Vanir pantheon in its name choosing instead to imply only the Aesir.

Yes, that's an issue I had as well. I'm not sure if the continental Germanic pagans saw the difference quite so starkly (Ós appears to be a generic word for 'a deity' to them, not incompatible with the Wani), but in a Norse context it doesn't quite encapsulate their beliefs. Either way it's not preferable in CK2.

I'd go with Teutonic. Using 'Teutonic' as a substitute for 'Germanic' isn't quite accurate, but it is at least more 'native' than 'Reformed Germanic' and suitable for a religion that is reformed based on Abrahamic lines, with a Christian Latin/Greek influence.

 

[Caoimhin]

Is Asatru what Reformed is? TBH, I forgot because in my current game they've been that way for so long I forgot if they just call it Norse for un-reformed. I also don't have the Charlemagne DLC but I'd much prefer Teutonic once I get it this winter. The problem is then it shifts too much to Central Germanic flavour.

 

[Lowcast]

Historically since all the continental Germanic tribes bar the Saxons abandoned paganism it wouldn't be too strange for it to have a Norse name, seeing as they've essentially been the ones maintaining it for centuries. There's no real catch-all name here other than simply 'Germanic' because all the tribes had different names for their deities. I personally prefer Asatru because Germanic just looks ugly and generic.

 

[EleventhAvenue]

"Forn Siðr" ? I did a quick wiki, Icelandic for "Old Custom". Asatru is a poor substitute, mainly because it ignores the Vanir pantheon in its name choosing instead to imply only the Aesir.

Well, it's not very old in the early medieval age, is it?
Also, the important Vanir people kind of got sucked up into the other pantheon after the war. Or is there some separate Vanir-oriented faith?

 

[SBolshevik]

Yes, that's an issue I had as well. I'm not sure if the continental Germanic pagans saw the difference quite so starkly (Ós appears to be a generic word for 'a deity' to them, not incompatible with the Wani), but in a Norse context it doesn't quite encapsulate their beliefs. Either way it's not preferable in CK2.

I'd go with Teutonic. Using 'Teutonic' as a substitute for 'Germanic' isn't quite accurate, but it is at least more 'native' than 'Reformed Germanic' and suitable for a religion that is reformed based on Abrahamic lines, with a Christian Latin/Greek influence.

You could go with Proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz (meaning "of the people"), then, since that's where the word "Teutonic" came from, plus you have a non-English name.

 

[GothicEmperor]

You could go with Proto-Germanic *þiudiskaz (meaning "of the people"), then, since that's where the word "Teutonic" came from, plus you have a non-English name.

Proto-Germanic is a bit too early for CKII, don't you think?

 

[SBolshevik]

It's the best thing for encompassing everybody, though. xD

 

[zijistark]

How about Norse? [ I can't speak for Asatru, as I don't know the details upon whether this is anachronistic. ] I mean, does that not get the overall point across better than calling Scandinavians anything else?

 

[Lord of Pain]

How about Norse? [ I can't speak for Asatru, as I don't know the details upon whether this is anachronistic. ] I mean, does that not get the overall point across better than calling Scandinavians anything else?

It's good enough as it is now; Norse for prereformed and Asatru for reformed. While asatru is an anachronistic term, if you ask a Scandinavian to define asatru they will most likely bring up the old beliefs, not the new age stuff. Despite being accurate, if translated most included religions have silly and/or new age sounding names anyway.

Meaning of Roman Catholicism: 'universal', e.g. the Roman universal church.
Meaning of Eastern Orthodoxy: 'correct/true belief', e.g. the true eastern church.
Meaning of Iconoclast Orthodoxy: 'image breaker', lit. ex. the true eastern image breaking church.
Meaning of Cathars: 'the pure ones', e.g. the pure church.
Meaning of Fraticellis: 'brethren', e.g. the cool story bro church.
Meaning of Monophysite Orthodoxy: 'single nature', e.g. the single nature oriental true church.
Meaning of Monothelite: 'doctrine of one will', e.g. the doctrine of one will church.
Meaning of Miaphysite Orthodoxy: 'single nature', e.g. the why are we a separate heresy from the monophysite church.
Meaning of Buddhism: 'the awakened one', e.g. awaken-ism.
Meaning of Sanātanī religion: 'eternal', e.g. the eternal religion.
Meaning of Jain religion: 'saint', e.g. the saint religion.
Meaning of Sunni Islam: 'custom/tradition', e.g. traditional Islam
Meaning of Shia Islam: 'follower (of Ali)', lit. ex. follower Islam
Meaning of Sufi Islam: 'purity' [disputed], e.g. pure Islam
Meaning of Kharijite Islam: 'those who went out', lit. ex. those who went out Islam
Meaning of Samaritan: 'Guardian/Watcher', e.g. Watchers of the Torah.
Meaning of Karaite: 'Reader', e.g. Readers of Tanakh.



These are wikitranslated names of most religions represented in the game so translations might be a little off, and there are other religions in the game but those are just boringly named after their respective founders. Having these in front of you, you can see how they're basically variations of the same name in different languages. I suppose we could invent native ahistorical names for reformed pagan religions by following the formula of the historical ones, but I suggest staying with the current names.

Old norse for some of the words:

Universal - Almenniligr
Religion - Trú
Belief - Átrunaðr
Customs - Siðr
True - Saðr/Sannr
Pure - Reinn
Brother -Bróðir
Holy, Sacred - Heilagr
Follower - Liði
Guard, Watch - Vorðr
Our - Várr
Will - Vili
Brethren - Brœðr
Break, Destroy - Brjóta

 

[zijistark]

It's good enough as it is now; Norse for prereformed and Asatru for reformed. While asatru is an anachronistic term, if you ask a Scandinavian to define asatru they will most likely bring up the old beliefs, not the new age stuff. Despite being accurate, if translated most included religions have silly and/or new age sounding names anyway.

Agreed. So many points for this post. Heh.

Meaning of Fraticellis: 'brethren', e.g. the cool story bro church.

Meaning of Miaphysite Orthodoxy: 'single nature', e.g. the why are we a separate heresy from the monophysite church.

:rofl:

 

[GothicEmperor]

It's good enough as it is now; Norse for prereformed and Asatru for reformed. While asatru is an anachronistic term, if you ask a Scandinavian to define asatru they will most likely bring up the old beliefs, not the new age stuff. Despite being accurate, if translated most included religions have silly and/or new age sounding names anyway.

The thing is that it's not just about the Norse now. Not for versions of HIP with a CM start, anyway, which is why it's been changed from Norse to Germanic in the base game.

Bloody Scandinavians, always acting like they own the old gods....

 

[Lord of Pain]

The thing is that it's not just about the Norse now. Not for versions of HIP with a CM start, anyway, which is why it's been changed from Norse to Germanic in the base game.

Bloody Scandinavians, always acting like they own the old gods....

We all know the base game is stupidly inaccurate (little point in arguing such things), what paradox should have done is to have introduced strong established heresies among pagans and thereby reflecting the chaotic nature of these large unreformed religions.

EDIT: actually I think I'm gonna try modding that in, hmmm...

 

[zijistark]

We all know the base game is stupidly inaccurate (little point in arguing such things), what paradox should have done is to have introduced strong established heresies among pagans and thereby reflecting the chaotic nature of these large unreformed religions.

EDIT: actually I think I'm gonna try modding that in, hmmm...

I've often thought that at least the reformed pagan religions should have heresies. They're already imaginary, and they shouldn't be immune to the religious authority problems other organized religions face.

 

[theStormWeaver]

I've often thought that at least the reformed pagan religions should have heresies. They're already imaginary, and they shouldn't be immune to the religious authority problems other organized religions face.

Unfortunately adding Heresies to reformed pagan faiths causes a CTD when opening the religion screen.

 

[Lord of Pain]

Unfortunately adding Heresies to reformed pagan faiths causes a CTD when opening the religion screen.

Lux Invicta has loads of heresies for reformed pagans, IIRC.