Reducing coring cost for those colonies taking from other colonial powers

[Xara]

The claim was the problem, I don't recall if it was deemed a bug or BAD.

This might be it. As an island it wouldn't trigger colonialism CB, despite being in the middle of my whole island chain with adjacent islands, so only way I had to attack it.

It might also be because my capital was moved to a province in Chesapeake. All the colonies in the Caribbean are functioning as 'same continent'.

In pursuit of sealing off Peru I had England intrude with a colony next to mine, so via colonialism I seized that and the next one they plopped down mid-war. Both of those had the proper 'colony' cost to core afterwards, but they're also definitely not the same continent.. I should have claimed the first one, I suppose, to test if that interfered

 

[ahuitzotl]

I think it kind of makes sense because taking over the colonial administration of Cuba from another country would have been an administrative nightmare. The Portuguese probably would have brought in a lot of slaves so you have social tensions and then the different language and religion too. Lots of skilled officials useful to the Dutch gov't would have had to be dispatched to Cuba to take stock of the local situation, work out compromises with the local elites, ensure economic stability and assert Dutch authority.

 

[RaptorCommander]

The situation is even worse if you are not a western power and partly ruins the game because it then just becomes a race that if you lose you might as well stop playing.

For example in a muilty player game I was the Mamulks colonising southward down Africa when Portugal colonised The Cape...the admin cost of conquering this province is ridiculous and not even worth fighting for and for what 1000 settlers! My army that occupied this territory is bigger than that.

Solutions:
1. Let colonists preform coring actions (as an alternative to admin points), so if you have one or two colonies 'in your way' you can core them without bankrupting yourself of admin points.
Additional benefits of this change:
a) Allows the expansion idea group to be a viable first pick for all nations not just for ones with a border to unoccupied land.
b) Ensures that colonists have a use in the late game, when all the colonises have already been taken.
c) Activates another strategic choice, should I get a new colony or should I tie up a colonist in coring a province.
Of course this would need to be balanced out in some way. Eg. It still cost 25% admin to start the mission, or it takes 2 times as long or the colonist mission reduces admin to core costs by X% ever month.

 

[Karrde]

I don't think it should only apply to distant overseas/colonies. Otherwise if you move your cap to the new world, you're going to be stuck with full costs. Doesn't really make sense to do it like that in my opinion. Probably any province that starts the game as a colony should get a reverse timer on it once it has been turned into a city. Timer causes the coring cost to reach full coring cost with 100 years or so. Still cheap to core all colonies when you first get them and it's cheap if you quickly start a colonial war for provinces. Leaving foreign colonies for the full time though, it would seem fair that those lands are considered true cores of the original owner.

Just realised it would probably be easiest to link the time to increase to full cost with core disappearance time for dead nations.

 

[sunsterson]

Ya, right now how could the Treaty of Paris or stuff like that happen where literally countries lost there entire colonies on the continent.

 

[Gabriel SPR]

The situation is even worse if you are not a western power and partly ruins the game because it then just becomes a race that if you lose you might as well stop playing.

For example in a muilty player game I was the Mamulks colonising southward down Africa when Portugal colonised The Cape...the admin cost of conquering this province is ridiculous and not even worth fighting for and for what 1000 settlers! My army that occupied this territory is bigger than that.

Solutions:
1. Let colonists preform coring actions (as an alternative to admin points), so if you have one or two colonies 'in your way' you can core them without bankrupting yourself of admin points.
Additional benefits of this change:
a) Allows the expansion idea group to be a viable first pick for all nations not just for ones with a border to unoccupied land.
b) Ensures that colonists have a use in the late game, when all the colonises have already been taken.
c) Activates another strategic choice, should I get a new colony or should I tie up a colonist in coring a province.
Of course this would need to be balanced out in some way. Eg. It still cost 25% admin to start the mission, or it takes 2 times as long or the colonist mission reduces admin to core costs by X% ever month.

That seems pretty cool actually. If they also reduce OE for conquering overseas territories, it's almost perfect.

 

[RaptorCommander]

The sad thing is that it can occur (Handover lots of proviances in a war) it just results in massive OE that you can't do anthing about unless you sink decades worth or admin points into.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

Maybe just make fabricate claims cost some admin points and give you a core instead of a claim for colonies?

 

[Xara]

Personally I think all colonies should function as vassals, defined by region. So if you colonize in Caribbean it will be one new nation vassal, if you throw a colony in Manhattan it'll form another. Any new colonist you send to the same region adds it to that regional vassal upon completion. And allow it to be relations-maintenance free for an amount equal to your number of colonists. Or something. Colonizing is so boring and uneventful. Secure the Cotton area first and aggressively pursue seizing anyone else's colonies and you can own all the Americas pretty easily

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

Also tariffs... Are pretty damned bad. If you can't control the trade in a specific region, don't even bother colonizing there, since tariffs are too low.

 

[The-King]

Also tariffs... Are pretty damned bad. If you can't control the trade in a specific region, don't even bother colonizing there, since tariffs are too low.

Well if you picked an idea that gives you a colonist, why wouldn't you just colonise anyways? It's free provinces and extra provinces no longer increase stab cost or tech cost.

 

[Al. I. Cuza]

Well if you picked an idea that gives you a colonist, why wouldn't you just colonise anyways? It's free provinces and extra provinces no longer increase stab cost or tech cost.

Potentially annoying another colonizer and risking wars that would cost more than they bring?

 

[Xara]

Well if you picked an idea that gives you a colonist, why wouldn't you just colonise anyways? It's free provinces and extra provinces no longer increase stab cost or tech cost.

I pick expansion for the relations, reputation, merchant, and asia CB, not the colonist

 

[RaptorCommander]

I pick expansion for the relations, reputation, merchant, and asia CB, not the colonist

Thats why colonist needs a second function. e.g. coreing cost reduction / OE reduction.]

The other idea branches can thus be the specilist branches where expansion is the genralist.

 

[ahuitzotl]

One historical example for expensive coring would be the English takeover of Jamaica from the Spanish. The colony was captured in 1655 but free Jamaicans did not become English citizens until 1662 and Spain did not recognize English control until 1670. English soldiers, officers and even governors died at an alarming rate from disease while administrating the island. It took years of effort to bring the island under control and make it a stable, profitable colony. Many deals had to be made with the unhappy local population and local leaders, including runaway slave communities, many of whom helped Spain try take the island back, all of that work to "core" the island by England required lots of effective administrative personnel and effort that could have been used elsewhere, plus the difficulty of administrating a faraway colony from the capital.

England also sent lots of prisoners to populate Jamaica with British peoples. So the processes of "culture conversion" and "coring" kind of happened simultaneously. It would be cool if colonists could be used for that on an existing colony depending on its pop size (so you could also buff up your own colonies with a big pop to make them hard for enemies to core).

 

[Xara]

Thats why colonist needs a second function. e.g. coreing cost reduction / OE reduction.]

yea, so do missionaries.

 

[Amosblanco]

Ya, right now how could the Treaty of Paris or stuff like that happen where literally countries lost there entire colonies on the continent.

+1. Just can not imagine how British cored the whole French North America in the game after they signed Treaty of Paris.

 

[ahuitzotl]

+1. Just can not imagine how British cored the whole French North America in the game after they signed Treaty of Paris.

It wasn't pretty or easy how they did it. Lots of administrative manpower was spent on juridical wrangling with local legal systems in developed areas and this required meticulous agreements and compromises which were different in every little town, all the result of "administrative power" or time spent by British officials. Some areas also continued to function under French law to such an extent it could be argued that they were not "cored" in the EU4 sense. Even today the French Canadians continue to be independent-minded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1763)#Effects_on_French_Canada

The British also faced serious revolts and responded with "harsh treatment" in areas where they did not integrate French colonists into their state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians

 

[TheBloke]

It wasn't pretty or easy how they did it. Lots of administrative manpower was spent on juridical wrangling with local legal systems in developed areas and this required meticulous agreements and compromises which were different in every little town, all the result of "administrative power" or time spent by British officials. Some areas also continued to function under French law to such an extent it could be argued that they were not "cored" in the EU4 sense. Even today the French Canadians continue to be independent-minded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Paris_(1763)#Effects_on_French_Canada

The British also faced serious revolts and responded with "harsh treatment" in areas where they did not integrate French colonists into their state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_the_Acadians

But I imagine they had more than 999 admin points available with which to do all of this

 

[ahuitzotl]

But I imagine they had more than 999 admin points available with which to do all of this

Good point, the whole admin mana thing is weird to begin with. My point is just that "coring" colonies was a pain in the butt for these empires historically. But most of them used military means to make the coring easier, like expelling the old colonists and bringing in new colonists.

I think you should be able to "expel" a colonial population (messed up i know) and start over with your own colonist, as an alternative to coring. You basically destroy the old colony that was there but it turns into a new colony of your own. Costs some military, diplo, and admin power (typically when this happened the expelling empire would offer free passage off the colony to people it was kicking out), and 95% chance of causing a revolt, but not a whopping chunk of admin power like it does to core it. It could be possible as long as it was colonized in the last 100 years or something.