Reducing Belligerance?

[Commander666]

What are the ways that country can reduce wartime belligerence? I only know about:
a) Don't make more DOWs (increases belligerence)
b) DO liberate nations (decreases belli)
c) Do not have Frustrated Expansionist Outlook (increases belli +0.2/month).

I am playing Japan, it is 1943, and have nearly worked my way thru Indonesia, India and nearly to Suez Canal while still realizing my wish to avoid conflict with USA. And while Germany could fire Bitter Peace, I won't grab Vladivostok as a DOW on SU would guarantee USA entering war, I am sure. And they have 24 CVs versus my 14.

My strategy is to avoid war with USA until after I have reached my land goals and firmly hold the Suez Canal. This was done so I could better concentrate and not have too much action going on - especially the USN disrupting my ocean transportation system until I get Suez nailed down.

So I am trying to lower my belligerence to below USA threshold to be able to DOW me - which might be 11 Belli needed for USA DOW as I doubt they are at full interventionism.

I liberated Yunnan May/42 which took me from 49 belligerence to 42. Soon I will liberate India.
But I just noticed that from May 2 to Aug 5/43, my belligerence climbed back to 48. WHY? I did no further DOWs.

Is there anywhere to mouse over belligerence and learn what is going on? The only mention I can find is Frustrated Expansionist Outlook - which I am not.

Why is Japan's belligerence climbing so much? I am playing the 1941 SCENARO. IIRC, I was at 50 earlier... and it did drop to 49 (which is when I started recording). But now it is climbing at a horrific rate - way faster than I could do liberations given the high dissent that needs eliminating every time.

THANKS!

 

[Commander666]

I guess nobody knows? But the belligerence of my Japan is increasing about 1 point/week.

 

[Derek XC]

Haha I'm sorry I'm useless on this subject. Sounds like an advanced question for someone with more experience!

 

[Commander666]

Well, thanks anyway for replying. I have progressed in my game as Japan with nearly all of Africa in my clutches now... so have a large number of nations I can liberate in my determined attempt to keep my belligerence (belli) below USA ability to DOW me.

As such I just discovered the Arab Federation which includes Egypt and all of Middle East (Palestine, Israel, Jordon, Iraq, Kuweit City, Oman, Yemen and Saudi Arabia combined). Only Suez province is excluded and real nice that I still control that. And while Saudi Arabia currently is not part of that Federation (I have not DOWed them yet), already the Arab Federation is at 32 IC.

As a side note, I ducked out of the ART/AT brigade in other thread as I think that it's OT there. But here I can mention it as how it relates to my new puppet the Arab Federation which I liberated to keep my belli low.

I think I may have started that AT/ART discussion by mentioning that most AI puppets only build AT brigades. And it got to being pointed out that AT brigades seem to have considerable benefits by 1940 as fitted Mr_BOnarpte's idea that UK and USA mostly spam armor units. But as regards the original statement of mine, I was pleasantly surprised when I got the Arab Federation... and they are building only ART brigades. Of course , this AI must know that the UK just got whooped and won't ever be sending any Churchills to retake North Africa, or the Middle East. And the Yanks aren't even caring to fight because the Japanese liberator (played by a human, namely me) is too smart to let his belligerence exceed USA policy to make a DOW. It is June 1944 now.

Unless USA does make the move to full interventionism, they need target country for DOW to be at 22 belligerence plus 10% additional because of minister. I can see that changing this year to be only 11 belli plus 10% needed for DOW... so 13 belligerence. But I already am at only 10 belli... but climbing ~1 point/week. So I will just keep liberating until I feel my carrier force is up to par and I have achieved all the carrier techs. While I may have less CVs than the Yanks, at least I am sure I am way ahead in navy doctrines. So I am still anticipating a challenging end game of carrier warfare with no more riff-raff like the Brits and French in Africa to distract my limited concentration.

And while I am really late in my aggression against USA, it needs to be remembered that I started with the 1941 Scenario which puts player several years behind what he might achieve had he controlled the Sino-Japanese war from start in 1937.

BELOW: The Arab Federation in the darker brown. Lighter brown is Saudi Arabia which the Federation has cores on but the Japanese master is still in the process of organizing that conquest. With only 14 TPs available, things are slow. And "no", I can't build any TPs because like most things, including upgrading, the 1941 Scenario Japan is a real dead beat. My total IC is a whooping 203. And with half of Asia and most of Africa mine and my puppets now, I am still -80 energy/day (?)

 

[Derek XC]

Well, thanks anyway for replying. I have progressed in my game as Japan with nearly all of Africa in my clutches now... so have a large number of nations I can liberate in my determined attempt to keep my belligerence (belli) below USA ability to DOW me.

As such I just discovered the Arab Federation which includes Egypt and all of Middle East (Palestine, Israel, Jordon, Iraq, Kuweit City, Oman, Yemen and Saudi Arabia combined). Only Suez province is excluded and real nice that I still control that. And while Saudi Arabia currently is not part of that Federation (I have not DOWed them yet), already the Arab Federation is at 32 IC.

As a side note, I ducked out of the ART/AT brigade in other thread as I think that it's OT there. But here I can mention it as how it relates to my new puppet the Arab Federation which I liberated to keep my belli low.

I think I may have started that AT/ART discussion by mentioning that most AI puppets only build AT brigades. And it got to being pointed out that AT brigades seem to have considerable benefits by 1940 as fitted Mr_BOnarpte's idea that UK and USA mostly spam armor units. But as regards the original statement of mine, I was pleasantly surprised when I got the Arab Federation... and they are building only ART brigades. Of course , this AI must know that the UK just got whooped and won't ever be sending any Churchills to retake North Africa, or the Middle East. And the Yanks aren't even caring to fight because the Japanese liberator (played by a human, namely me) is too smart to let his belligerence exceed USA policy to make a DOW. It is June 1944 now.

Unless USA does make the move to full interventionism, they need target country for DOW to be at 22 belligerence plus 10% additional because of minister. I can see that changing this year to be only 11 belli plus 10% needed for DOW... so 13 belligerence. But I already am at only 10 belli... but climbing ~1 point/week. So I will just keep liberating until I feel my carrier force is up to par and I have achieved all the carrier techs. While I may have less CVs than the Yanks, at least I am sure I am way ahead in navy doctrines. So I am still anticipating a challenging end game of carrier warfare with no more riff-raff like the Brits and French in Africa to distract my limited concentration.

And while I am really late in my aggression against USA, it needs to be remembered that I started with the 1941 Scenario which puts player several years behind what he might achieve had he controlled the Sino-Japanese war from start in 1937.

BELOW: The Arab Federation in the darker brown. Lighter brown is Saudi Arabia which the Federation has cores on but the Japanese master is still in the process of organizing that conquest. With only 14 TPs available, things are slow. And "no", I can't build any TPs because like most things, including upgrading, the 1941 Scenario Japan is a real dead beat. My total IC is a whooping 203. And with half of Asia and most of Africa mine and my puppets now, I am still -80 energy/day (?)

I honestly didn't know there was a country called Arab Federation in this game. It has to be one of the few countries I have never liberated. Going to have to try this myself next game for sur.

 

[Zsar1]

Belligerence is modified by -0.25 or the accumulated minister modifier, once per month.
(E.g. with Hitler in power, you gain 0.2 points per month while at war and lose 0.5 points per month at peace, instead of losing 0.25 in both cases.)

One-time modifications include events such as others declaring war on you and declaring war yourself, occupying foreign and having owned provinces occupied, puppeting existing and liberating non-existent countries as puppets, accepting peace as attacker/defender, annexing countries... I think those were all.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Belligerence is modified by -0.25 or the accumulated minister modifier, once per month.
(E.g. with Hitler in power, you gain 0.2 points per month while at war and lose 0.5 points per month at peace, instead of losing 0.25 in both cases.)

Is that value modified by the isolationsm slider, does less interventiosm enhance the rate at which belligerence is lost?

 

[Zsar1]

Is that value modified by the isolationsm slider, does less interventiosm enhance the rate at which belligerence is lost?

The responsible code is very convoluted, so I am not entirely sure, but it does not seem so.
As far as I am aware, neither is this something the tooltip would claim?

 

[Commander666]

Is there a tool tip? That's what I've been seeking.

 

[Commander666]

Belligerence is modified by ... ... ... I think those were all.

ANYWAY, thanks for the great detailed answer. But I been recording this Japan's belligerence, and all actions like DOWs and liberations, etc.... ... .... but my record points to an unbridled increase in belligerence:

May 2nd/22 Liberated Yunna, belligerence goes from 49 > 42
June 14/44, belli = 43
August 5/43 belli = 48
August 24/43 belli = 49
Sept 14/43 belli = 51.

That is +9 belligerence in only 3 months! Off course I playing V1.09 and the 1941 scenario - which seems quite old if the very many flags on its AT START page is any indication.

But now that we are having this discussion, it seems my game has suddenly changed to try and make a liar out of me. Even more accurate and most recent record (definitely correct) shows that:
June 26/44 liberated Rhodesia which brought belligerence to zero. (Can't be wrong about that!).
July 17/44 belligerence = 0 (still 0, also can't be wrong!)

This 2nd recording was taken when I landed on Noumea in my hot pursuit of the frogs that leap out of Africa. I hate it when they stockpile 30 divisions on that Pacific Isle (without a single factory but using 31 off-map IC). And the next day their capital relocated to next door Lifou island where on same day they laid down a brand new division. Now my tired marines need push on before that sucker gains any org. Ah, no rest for the wicked!

So now my belligerence behaving... but not earlier? That doesn't surprise me playing a Paradox game!

==========================================

EDIT: No political action to change belligerence occurred. I did however conquer many new provinces in 1943, and seems that was causing the rapid belligerence increase, as you mention being one of the causes in your above. It all seems to fit now because in last month I conquered nothing until I noticed the new French buildup in the Pacific. Thanks!

 

[Commander666]

I honestly didn't know there was a country called Arab Federation in this game. It has to be one of the few countries I have never liberated. Going to have to try this myself next game for sur.

I honestly think there is very much I don't know either about this game, never seen before, or can't explain. I like how Mr_BOnarpte coined it long ago; "The mystery of AoD".

 

[Commander666]

Just to give a bit more input on the subject, I now have 4 month long record of how belligerence increased while I amphibed all the UK islands in the Pacific. According to that, it was 5 new provinces taken = increase of 1 belligerence. All those islands are economically zero and without any provincial structures. The pace of amphibs remained fairly steady, so the additional modification of belligerence at end of month does not seem to upset the record.

But when I amphibed Port Moresby, which has both naval and air base, it was only one additional province taken that caused belligerence increase of 1 point. Hence, I suspect that conquering provinces with factories or installations probably increases belligerence more than conquering unimproved provinces.

As regards taking provinces with resources (Naru and Noumea both have rares) it still was 5 provinces taken resulted in increase of 1 belli.

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[Mr_B0narpte]

I thought you gained belligerence by 1 for each province you conquer, but Commander's post seem to suggest otherwise?

I also think the reverse applies for releasing puppets - i.e when releasing a puppet you lose 1 belligerence for every province that is 'liberated' to the puppet

 

[Pioniere]

Arab Federation have been in hoi2 atleast since hoi2-doomsday. In AOD the Arab Federation got a few updates as well. AOD have many other intresting nations for liberating and reducing belligerence.
Hoppfully we might make few more nations to AOD at some point.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

I thought you gained belligerence by 1 for each province you conquer, but Commander's post seem to suggest otherwise?

There are seperate contributions from taking/losing control of a province and gaining the ownership over it. The later may have a strong effect.