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[retired] FM
Apr 20, 2001
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Combinations of slider moves can affect the base partisan levels for authoritarian countries like Germany and the Soviet Union. These effects can be seen on the partisan tooltip within a province as Base Revolt Risk (BRR). These slider moves can take 10 or more years with your annual move to get the full effects.

Generally slider moves towards Democracy or towards Open Society will lower BRR. For other countries, experiment with a saved game where you have BRR in an area that will be of long term importance to you. Democracies generally start with lower BRR levels, and countries between the extremes can benefit from similar slider moves.

Note that some slider moves can not be made until other slider moves are first done. Both GER and SOV can do one Open Society (OS) move, but then have to move either towards Democracy or use the political right (PR) or political left (PL) slider before being able to do any more OS moves.

Generally the effects of making several slider moves in combinations over a long period of time is that partisan levels in occupied territory decrease a lot while partisan levels in annexed territory decrease a little. There are also regional variations in base partisan levels, however, and the combinations of region and slider effects seem to be almost endless. This article uses BRR levels in Europe for two major dictatorships (GER and SOV) as an example. Besides the slider and regional effects, there can also be doubled partisan levels when an area such as Poland is first annexed by GER and then taken over by SOV: these combinations can be almost endless. All testing here was done with the freedom cheat.

There is one unseen and undocumented effect on the PL to PR slider. After 3 moves from the extreme towards the middle of the Political slider, there is a fall in partisan levels in occupied territory that is not shown on that slider's tooltip. When GER make 3 moves from PR towards the center, BRR drops by 7% in occupied territory. When SOV make 3 moves from PL towards the center, BRR drops by 4% in occupied territory. GER also benefits more from the first OS move, but the combination of slider moves interacts: GER gets 3% less BRR in occupied territory from the OS move or it gets 7% less BRR from moving towards Political Center 3 times, ending up, however, with net 8% less BRR in occupied territory from the combination of the 4 moves. 7+3 should not equal 8, but it does here. No matter which way you sequence this, with 1 OS move + 3 moves towards PC, GER end up with a net 8% less BRR in occupied territory (24% at that point instead of 32%). And I do not know why this happens. Meanwhile the SOV sequence is normal: all the steps add up without that weird math that the slider steps add up to for GER. "Something's happening here; what it is, ain't exactly clear".

If your eyes glaze over at this point, that's understandable. Even more details will follow. Without cheats, most of these slider moves can not have significant results for a while (1950 or later) unless you use the freedom cheat. So if you don't have the time or don't want to fool around with these slider moves, you can stop reading this now though you might want to save this info for further reference.

Starting point for GER is occupied 32% BRR with annexed 25% BRR.
Starting point for SOV is occupied 24% BRR with annexed 25% BRR.
This implies that the PR gets more partisans than the PL in occupied territory. Note that for both PR and PL extremes, no change is shown in BRR until 3 moves are made towards the political center.

For both countries, unless you are cheating, these moves should probably not be done until 1943 for Germany or until 1946 for SOV when both can be at full standing army and where every slider is at a maximum setting.

Both GER and SOV can make 1 OS move without changing any other slider.
For Germany, this results in GER getting 1% less BRR in annexed provinces and 3% less BRR in occupied provinces.
For USSR, this results in SOV getting 1% less BRR in annexed provinces and 1% less BRR in occupied provinces. SOV could postpone this move and instead first move from PL to center.

Then each country should make 3 Political moves towards center. That then allows for an OS move. Then you have to move towards Democracy 2 steps before you can make 2 OS moves. Net that's 4 OS moves, 3 Political moves, and 2 or 3 moves towards Democracy.

For SOV the results are:
	annexed	occupied
start	25	24
Open	24	23
3 Left	24	19
Open	22	18
2 Demo	20	13
2 Open	18	12
The SOV by around 1953 with their historic events and these slider moves can reduce partisan levels by half in occupied territory from 24% BRR to 12% BRR while also reducing BRR in annexed territory less dramatically from 25% to 18% BRR. SOV can make another Open Society move if they want for a total of 3 Political moves, 3 Democratic moves, and 5 OS moves, but they would be running out of time in a standard game without cheating. Note that with either an additional Political center move or a Democratic slider move, the SOV government changes to a Democracy. Save the game before experimenting with these moves because you might not like the results of this change in government type.

For Germany, the results are:
	annexed	occupied
start	25	32
Open	24	29
3 Left	24	24
Open	22	22
2 Demo	21	16
2 Open	18	14
demo	18	13
GER can be at this point around 1 JAN 52 if it gets all the historic events thru the split of Czechoslovakia while moving it's sliders annually towards full central planning and towards standing army. Other sliders can be maximized on 1 JAN 42 and then these moves can start on 1 JAN 43.

Note that GER starting from the PR can not make as many OS moves as the SOV can starting from the PL. GER needs 10 slider moves for this sequence: 3 towards Political center, 3 Democratic moves, and 4 OS moves. GER can make another move to the Political center which results in a government change from Nazi to Paternal Autocrat with Hitler being removed from office among other Minister changes including losing that 5% IC minister modifier from Hess/Bormann. This then allows 2 more OS moves that further reduce BRR. If Germany makes an additional Democratic slider move, however, it becomes a democracy and gets new ministers.

Note that for both countries, if you make another slider move towards Democracy, you will change your government type. Stop just under the A in Authoritarian on the top slider and you have not changed your government type. But with the next Democratic slider move, you change your government type to a Democracy. Note also that you get dissent from DoW when you start moving towards a democratic country.

For another perspective on the value of using slider moves to control partisans, look at Kristof73’s comments in this thread:

my brain is melting... :wacko:

but seriously, this is very interesting. how long did it take you to figure it out?
john heidle said:
For Germany, the results are:
	annexed	occupied
start	25	32[/QUOTE]
Please check it if you can. As Germany I DOW-ed Denmark. And with 0 % dissent and without any partisan suppression  base revolt is 24% before annexation. And 25% after. In other part of the world is the same. 32% PA is probably with dissent after DOW.

[QUOTE=john heidle]
For SOV the results are:

	annexed	occupied
start	25	24[/QUOTE] In SOV case it should be: 25% and 18%. Blue Emu said the same in my thread. But of course I can be wrong.
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Of course there are other side effects to changing the sliders. PL/PR for instance sets which ministers are available.

I am not sure how high you can go on OS before full central planning is no longer allowed.
Dalwin said:
Of course there are other side effects to changing the sliders. PL/PR for instance sets which ministers are available.

I am not sure how high you can go on OS before full central planning is no longer allowed.
From my games is resulting that once placed sliders didn't move. Having full central planning you can go to full democracy without any changes. Of course you must go to central planning first, what is more sensible - more IC, better ESE. The best effect you have as patternal autocrat. DOW enemies, move to democracy and choose as many sliders move to open society in extra democratic events. There are hawk's/standing army/intervencionism moves too. And of course there is no sense to annex enemies, becouse very low - 1%-5% partisan activity which added to occupied territory maintenance (OTM), gives even 40% less TC load and 0 partisans. In this case, there is no need to use any garrisons at all.

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