Reduce Polish-Hungarian hostilities

[Kane_hun]

Greetings,

I would like to suggest a way to reduce the hostilities between the mentioned to countries in eu4. Since a historical friendship modifier was deemed too powerful, I propose to increase the starting trust between countries instead. (like between the Knights and Venice). It wouldnt prevent hostilities, but Poland might just not rival Hungary so frequently.
Secondly, I would like to ask the first Hungarian mission to be able to completed via allying Poland (since in many cases Poland rivals Hungary anyway, I just would like to play a game allied to them instead). In previous versions this was possible but was removed due to unknown reasons (perhaps the devs wanted Poland to actively attack Hungary with their claim on the throne?). In conclusion, it just pains me to see those two fighting over Slovakia but Austria and Hungary are rarely every at war, while Mathias sieged down Vienna (not to mention the Transylvanian-Hungarian István Báthory on the Polish throne).

P. S. I would like to thank the devs for implementing the Roman of Moldavia event, whether it was influenced by my thread ot not. I suppose my suggestion was a bit late, but nicely correlates with the implemented way.

 

[TheDungen]

Why not historical friendship?

 

[Kane_hun]

Why not historical friendship?

Although I would support this, Wiz said these back in 2015 in a similiar thread:

Spoiler: Quotes

We could do this, but then we'd have to remove the Polish-Lithuanian historical friendship and form union decision.

I'm guessing nobody really wants that trade-off.

Having Hungary, Poland and Lithuania as a perma-buddies bloc stretching from the Adriatic to Russia would play complete havoc with the game. I know because I tried it and the results were awful.

That doesn't even remotely make sense. It worked out great for THEM, it worked out poorly for the rest of the world, especially the Ottomans.

No, sorry, you have no clue as to what you're talking about.

Balance in terms of 'how will the game generally develop' is very important. If the Ottomans fail every game, it's a failure of balance because certain nations are meant to (usually) become powerful so that the players have some plausible rivals in the mid-to-end game. Making H-P historical friends disrupted this to the point that the balance goals we really care about (the development of certain nations) was thrown out the window, and unless we abandon those goals, we 'have' to counterbalance such a move.

I don't care one bit what arguments you 'buy', but I suggest you try making Hungary and Poland historical friends, running 100 handsoff games and observing the results, THEN make your judgement about it. I understand if it's just easier to make snarky remarks on a forum though.

 

[Greece stronk]

Maybe a historical friendship could be counterbalanced by a Balkans update buffing the Ottomans. The Balkans are in great need of an update anyway.

 

[TheDungen]

Although I would support this, Wiz said these back in 2015 in a similiar thread:

Not sure what he means I have modded it that way and in the last patch they get steamrolled anyway. Bohemia is an utter beast.

 

[adin85]

Maybe a historical friendship could be counterbalanced by a Balkans update buffing the Ottomans. The Balkans are in great need of an update anyway.

First there is need for HRE and Italy favour. After that there could be some changes in this way. Now it would be too powerful.

 

[moscal]

Why not historical friendship?

In SP AI will have problem with creation "anti-polish coalition".

 

[TheDungen]

In SP AI will have problem with creation "anti-polish coalition".

I'm sorry I don't understand wouldn't a historical friendship help with that?

 

[Kane_hun]

Not sure what he means I have modded it that way and in the last patch they get steamrolled anyway. Bohemia is an utter beast.

That is quite helpful, since it was a long time ago Wiz said these and much has changed in the game. However I think, in order to draw some conclusions we should evaluate at least a couple dozen simulated games to observe what happens, to eliminate as much as possible the RNG factor. If you could help with that, it would be much appreciated.

 

[TheDungen]

That is quite helpful, since it was a long time ago Wiz said these and much has changed in the game. However I think, in order to draw some conclusions we should evaluate at least a couple dozen simulated games to observe what happens, to eliminate as much as possible the RNG factor. If you could help with that, it would be much appreciated.

I have played a fair few games. That said it's not the only historical friendship/rivalry I have added. Also doesn't play with lucky nations. I have never seen Bohemia do bad, Venice also does really well. Hungary gets utterly murdered and usually so does poland and france.

 

[Kane_hun]

Recently the issue I perceived has occured to @Vajrajina as well (might be worth a bug report), who posted this thread recently:
Hungarian mission old alliances changes mid-mission

Thus we may conclude that perhaps a different first mission for Hungary should be added (one example would be @Parmelion's mod), or made it at least more consistently/easily doable via the alliance way.