Redesigning HoI3 map

[wilcoxchar]

So, how do you propose to simulate Europe then? By my calculations, Belgium would receive two provinces, which is certainly not acceptable for a game taking place during the Second World War. Also, in Africa, some of the provinces you would be suggesting will contain nothing but sand. Different-sized-provinces does have an advantage.

 

[unmerged(101730)]

So, how do you propose to simulate Europe then? By my calculations, Belgium would receive two provinces, which is certainly not acceptable for a game taking place during the Second World War. Also, in Africa, some of the provinces you would be suggesting will contain nothing but sand. Different-sized-provinces does have an advantage.

Two provinces for Belgium sounds about right (split between the Flemish and the French parts - Bruxelles and Namur). Maybe even three if I feel generous (adding in Liége). So long as people can accept single provinces the size of France or bigger in HoI2, I don't really see the problem with Belgium having a total of three European (and some 170+ African) provinces either.

 

[theusje]

So you're going to split Belgium in two and name one part Bruxelles and the other Namur and if you're generous, which you seem to be when I look at your other maps, you'll give us Liege as an extra.

If you want to split it even between the Walloons and the Flemish, give at least one part of Belgium a Flemish name, such as Gent or Antwerpen. Also I would go for Liege instead of Namur. So I suggest using Gent/Antwerpen for the Flemish, Bruxelles as capital and Liege for the Walloons.

 

[Naga Niome]

Every country should have at least 5 provinces, but some nations like Oman and Tannu Tuva don't necessarily need such so much. It's not that these are minor nations historically and played a little role, but to just expend 15 provinces on Tannu alone terrifies me what if you were to design the HoI3 map alone. I could imagine you running well over 15,000 provinces.

I would expect Belgium, an industrialized European nation bordering World War 2's powerful belligerents France and Germany naturally demanding a larger theater. Belgium offering us 25-40 provinces to launch an incredible Blitzkrieg or French defense. Tannu: Nothing happened there. That's pretty much it. 4-5 provinces is enough. HoI3 is historical to an significant extent that these nations don't need that extra attention because the war didn't go that far. What if we go to far in giving like 100+ minor nations 10-30 provinces, that will consume more than a quarter of 10,000.

I would argue that Luxembourg is expanded into three provinces representing their districts Diekirch, Grevenmacher and Luxembourg because it plays a large role in WW2 history.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Two provinces for Belgium sounds about right (split between the Flemish and the French parts - Bruxelles and Namur). Maybe even three if I feel generous (adding in Liége). So long as people can accept single provinces the size of France or bigger in HoI2, I don't really see the problem with Belgium having a total of three European (and some 170+ African) provinces either.

Ummm, yes people accept single provinces the size of France in HOI2, but they don't accept a single province for France which is along the lines of what you are suggesting. Also, why should the Congo have 170 provinces while Belgium gets three, Belgium was a much more important theatre during the game's timeframe and much more developed in terms of infrastructure and industry.

 

[Markusw7]

stop taking drugs

 

[unmerged(101730)]

Ummm, yes people accept single provinces the size of France in HOI2, but they don't accept a single province for France which is along the lines of what you are suggesting. Also, why should the Congo have 170 provinces while Belgium gets three, Belgium was a much more important theatre during the game's timeframe and much more developed in terms of infrastructure and industry.

Belgium: 30528 km²
Belgian Congo: 2344858 km²

That's why. As I wrote in the opening post, with this redesign I only have one goal: To have the province sizes roughly the same everywhere on land, with the exception of Antarctica. So, no, "development" or "importance" are simply irrelevant to my goals.

 

[unmerged(101730)]

So you're going to split Belgium in two and name one part Bruxelles and the other Namur and if you're generous, which you seem to be when I look at your other maps, you'll give us Liege as an extra.

If you want to split it even between the Walloons and the Flemish, give at least one part of Belgium a Flemish name, such as Gent or Antwerpen. Also I would go for Liege instead of Namur. So I suggest using Gent/Antwerpen for the Flemish, Bruxelles as capital and Liege for the Walloons.

Well ... either will work. I think the original HoI even used the Antwerpen/Buxelles/Liége split, though I'm not sure, and don't have it installed right now.

 

[Alex_brunius]

Akjosch I suggest you go play some hex map based games instead. We all already know that HoI3 won't feature Belgium with 2-3 provinces.

 

[theusje]

Never played HOI1, was before my time ...

3 provinces for Belgium seems about right with your planning then.

 

[unmerged(101730)]

Akjosch I suggest you go play some hex map based games instead. We all already know that HoI3 won't feature Belgium with 2-3 provinces.

Did you even read my opening sentence?

"As stated in other threads, my first modding for HoI3 will be making a map where all the 10000 provinces are spread out evenly over ther globe, Antarctica excluded."

I'm not talking about the game as shipped. I'm designing my mod for it here in the open, so that people can voice constructive criticism.

HoI3 won't feature a Belgium with two or three provinces as shipped. My mod will.

 

[LordGazer]

I can respect your goal of uniform province sizes and some of the reasons. However, I feel that the number of provinces should be defined by the number of possible advance routes or defensible positions. Belgium has more roads than Tannu Tuva.

Now taking roads/railroads and their directions into account is another level of complexity. Maybe apart from infrastructure level we should have pre defined connection levels between provinces that affect movement. A well developed high infrastructure province can have very bad connections to a neighboring province.

LordG

 

[Alex_brunius]

Why not just mod it like a hex game then? Seems so much simpler if now all provinces are going to be the same size.

Pretty much all other wargames on grand strategy are already hex based with equal size provinces. So you want to take one of the two things that make HoI unique and remove it :wacko: Doesn't sound like the easiest approach but Ill wish your mod good luck and get far away from it. Myself I love different size provinces.

(The other unique feature beeing its real time)

 

[unmerged(87984)]

I agree that land provinces in general should be roughly the same size, but there are exceptions. Uncivilised, backwater areas, like the Sahara don't need to have small provinces.
Such areas were almost never fought over (except maybe by some bedouine tribes, dunno), there is no need for many provinces enabling complicated maneuvering actions. Same goes for deep jungle, there are no chokepoints, no points of interest, no centres of transport/industry. Sometimes not even cities.
If you have to decrease the province count in populated, important areas to raise the province count in uninhabited or backwater areas I very much doubt that this would be worth it.

But we'll have to see how the map is made up in the final version.

 

[mib]

Have fun with a playership of 3.

I know I wouldn't want anything to do with a mod with 14-prov Tuva and 3-prov Belgium. (And I'm a hyper-nationalist.)

 

[Chief Savage Ma]

This is seriously the most ridiculous thing I've seen on this forum. Tannu Tuva deserves no more than 4 provinces to allow for runs of 4 IC. Belgium deserves at least 20, if not 30. Tannu Tuva saw no war at any point in the years 1936-48. Belgium saw two extensive campaigns fought as well as a third if the USSR gets crazy. Your logic makes sense if we were playing chess and not a hugely complex world war simulator.

 

[unmerged(58571)]

By that logic, one might aswell make everything outside Europe PTI...

 

[GeneralHannibal]

Belgium: 30528 km²
Belgian Congo: 2344858 km²

That's why. As I wrote in the opening post, with this redesign I only have one goal: To have the province sizes roughly the same everywhere on land, with the exception of Antarctica. So, no, "development" or "importance" are simply irrelevant to my goals.

So you're basically developing this mod just to look at, but not actually to play? Seems to me this is an incredibly nonconstructive thing to do with your time, but hey, whatever floats your boat...

 

[Lazy_Boy]

Basing territories on land area is the stupidest idea for HOI3 I've ever heard. I do not want to be fighting for control of hundreds of insignificant 0 IC 0 resource territories across the globe.

As long as a slower move speed corresponds with a giant territory I don't see the problem. If you were fighting for a large chunk of Siberia the only fight would be for the largest cities. Large armies could not be sustained way out in the middle of nowhere like some barbarian horde.

 

[enmunate]

Give the man a break, guys. He wants to faithfully represent the globe based on the actual planet. Whose to say that this wont diminish the playing value of the game? Imagine the intense fighting over the Congo, or over the Amazon. And also, I am sure once the map is made personal modders can use his template to create their own campaigns.

Plus, this could also be a proof of concept type of project. See how the game would be played if all provinces were fair. You are you to judge?