Nou! Why Soviet AARs are somewhat damned? Storm lost Chuikov, now you've lost Октябрьская революция... Shameful and most unlucky. But still, the Red Banner shall prevail!
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I'm actually just writing a paper for school about WWI ships and i can say with confidence that a WWII heavy cruiser was far superior to an old battleship. Though i feel the loss and the need for a national day of mourning for the old flagship the Hipper was still a superior ship. I like your AAR sir, what graphics pack are you using for your ships?
While still a very sad loss, and a National Tragedy, maybe so can console yourself with this.
The Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya was modernised in the 30's, extensively modernized. Therefore it's representation as a Level I BB is inaccurate, and even Paradox classes the Gangut Class at Level III, which you might all know is the original name of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya.
So your ship really should have been a Level III, but Paradox has no events to represent this.
Even so, a WW2 CA is uperior to a vintage WW1 ship. But I think in real life ship wouldn't have sank, given your story, a Level 3 BB is better then a Level 4 HC.
Even so for storyline purposes, some repercussions have to take place. Rather poor initiative seems to have been shown by some Admirals here.
Stalin isn't likely to be happy.
Anyways, an action packed update! I loved the graphics work as always, mixing in the historical photos.
And the sailor who wrote the poem seems to have been quite indoctrinated..........
The Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya was modernised in the 30's, extensively modernized. Therefore it's representation as a Level I BB is inaccurate, and even Paradox classes the Gangut Class at Level III, which you might all know is the original name of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya.
So your ship really should have been a Level III, but Paradox has no events to represent this.
Even so, a WW2 CA is uperior to a vintage WW1 ship. But I think in real life ship wouldn't have sank, given your story, a Level 3 BB is better then a Level 4 HC.
Even so for storyline purposes, some repercussions have to take place. Rather poor initiative seems to have been shown by some Admirals here.
Stalin isn't likely to be happy.
Anyways, an action packed update! I loved the graphics work as always, mixing in the historical photos.
And the sailor who wrote the poem seems to have been quite indoctrinated..........
you can always blame the "white" makers of the original oktabryskaya it was not a pure "people's" design but a remake of the original tzarist puny ship.
it was not a pure "people's" design but a remake of the original tzarist puny ship.
Looks like a well-placed punch by the Germans. I sense demotions, Stalin style...
Just goes to show how awesome the German surface ships were Not only some of the coolest figthing ships, but also some of the toughest Figthing off a 14 ship fleet(with 3 BBs none the less) with a single heavy cruiser and a handfull of destroyers equals pure awesomeness!
Not only some of the coolest figthing ships, but also some of the toughest Figthing off a 14 ship fleet(with 3 BBs none the less) with a single heavy cruiser and a handfull of destroyers equals pure awesomeness!
IIRC, Hitler ordered to rename Deutschland to Lutzow once he realised he may lose a ship bearing such a symbolic name... Looks like Stalin got a bit overconfident.
Still, I see that your game is proceedeing rather unortodoxically (man, three posts in a row with this word) - GER has built 3 Bismarcks, it's mid 1942 without a second front in Europe... But it me be because you're playing vanilla - games with Mod34 have changed my HoI2 habits
Still, I see that your game is proceedeing rather unortodoxically (man, three posts in a row with this word) - GER has built 3 Bismarcks, it's mid 1942 without a second front in Europe... But it me be because you're playing vanilla - games with Mod34 have changed my HoI2 habits
It was good thing that sneaky barrrel attack to Copenhagen didn't work like the Nazis expected.
Baltic Fleet's performance after the capture of Kiel was impressive and not even lost of an old battleship in the second battle can take away glory the Soviet Navy has earned.
Baltic Fleet's performance after the capture of Kiel was impressive and not even lost of an old battleship in the second battle can take away glory the Soviet Navy has earned.
BritishImperial - I don't know if "the rest" is good news. Yeah, the Red Fleet defeated the whole KM assembled, but it also lost a great opportunity to sink stuff.
General_Hoth - ComradeOm, I found another one!
darthkommandant - That would be almost all ports of Continental Europe... Surely here are more feasible means of revenge?
General_BT - As long as those communiques from Moscow - and Leningrad! - don't affect funding, we'll survive.
RGB - Bloody research teams sucking... Pdox should patch the new HoI3 research system into my game! Still, we have the best overall doctrine - build more and better!
Milites - I don't quite see how those two are mutually exclusive...
Stuyvesant - Many thanks! I hope you're still reading. AAR's slower but not dead, I'm just busier with some other stuff.
Jedrek - I call it blatant anti-sovietism by Johan!
maximus323 - I'm forced to agree. Even renewed, the Gangunts were no match for a modern cruiser like the Hipper. But two of them plus a modern Battleship really should have done it.
Maj. von Mauser - I wouldn't say it should have been a lvl3 really. I know that's how Paradox calls it, but they were still based on an old model, and thus limited by it. I'd say lvl2 would be the correct equilibrium.
The poem made me sad, knowing the update that would follow...
gooy - I like the way you think!
Velendesril - That's the plan!
Modo - Well... Gotta remember the Navy isn't exactly swimming in Admirals, and Kuznetsov still has a word in it.
Pwn*Star - Extended vacations to you.
Jedrek - May I direct you to update #36? There's a second front there. And a third, if we count Norway.
Olaus Petrus - Yes, yes. Barrels won't stop the People's Mighty Hand! ...unless they are filled with Vodka of course.
General_Hoth - ComradeOm, I found another one!
darthkommandant - That would be almost all ports of Continental Europe... Surely here are more feasible means of revenge?
General_BT - As long as those communiques from Moscow - and Leningrad! - don't affect funding, we'll survive.
RGB - Bloody research teams sucking... Pdox should patch the new HoI3 research system into my game!
Still, we have the best overall doctrine - build more and better!Milites - I don't quite see how those two are mutually exclusive...
Stuyvesant - Many thanks! I hope you're still reading. AAR's slower but not dead, I'm just busier with some other stuff.
Jedrek - I call it blatant anti-sovietism by Johan!
maximus323 - I'm forced to agree. Even renewed, the Gangunts were no match for a modern cruiser like the Hipper. But two of them plus a modern Battleship really should have done it.
Maj. von Mauser - I wouldn't say it should have been a lvl3 really. I know that's how Paradox calls it, but they were still based on an old model, and thus limited by it. I'd say lvl2 would be the correct equilibrium.
The poem made me sad, knowing the update that would follow...
gooy - I like the way you think!
Velendesril - That's the plan!
Modo - Well... Gotta remember the Navy isn't exactly swimming in Admirals, and Kuznetsov still has a word in it.
Pwn*Star - Extended vacations to you.
Jedrek - May I direct you to update #36? There's a second front there. And a third, if we count Norway.
Olaus Petrus - Yes, yes. Barrels won't stop the People's Mighty Hand! ...unless they are filled with Vodka of course.
I think Level 2 or 3 would work, but I think the ships is much more closer if not at level 3
If you take the Queen Elizabeth and the Gangut classes as they were in real life and make a comparason, both come out pretty Equal. And Queen Elizabeth is the Level 2 BB class for Great Britain. I think that right there puts an Original Ship of the Gangut Class at a Level 2 aswell. I can delve more in depth between the two classes but dont feel like it.
Then when you factor in the modernisation that the ships recieved I think this raises them to a Level Three. They wern't given new armament, but things like an extensive hull upgrade, increased AA protection and an improved fire control system. I think this reflects in the statistics between the classes. 2-3 are very similiar, wheres 4 is much better, representing advances in armament to a new ship taking in lessions and technologies. The other two represent classes built or designed before or after the Great War, not much difference exceot in relatively minor things.
Some ships of the QE class were modernized as well, although at varying levels, and not as extensive... I think this is why they aer put as a Level 2, although a bigger reasons is that the Nelson Class fits the bill perfectly.
Anyways, the bottom line is the ship is still sunk, and it is a terrible loss for the Soviet Red Navy. Would have sunk if it was a level 2 or 3? We can't say, but I think the chances are much less.
Either way it was a rather freak incident, but it goes to show the Germans still have much more experience, or are getting desparate.
Sorry for this long rambling post, Naval Combat is my most favourite part of the game, and I love to discuss and debate about it, and why things are as they are.
All caught up now. Shame about the battleship, but overall things seem to be going your way - weak performance by the army notwithstanding.
Generally speaking, how is the situation on what the Germans would call the Ostfront? Last time I saw any details, the Red Army was closing on Warsaw, is that still the case? And what about the situation to the south?
Now that the end of Germany seems likely (what with Soviet, British and American invasions of occupied Europe), are you planning for what will come after the fall of Berlin? Or will you wait with that until you have a better idea of how the map will look at that time?
In the mean time, I look forward to future engagements between the Kriegsmarine and the Red Fleet. Hopefully, the days of the German battle wagons are numbered...
Shame about the battleship, but overall things seem to be going your way - weak performance by the army notwithstanding.Generally speaking, how is the situation on what the Germans would call the Ostfront? Last time I saw any details, the Red Army was closing on Warsaw, is that still the case? And what about the situation to the south?
Now that the end of Germany seems likely (what with Soviet, British and American invasions of occupied Europe), are you planning for what will come after the fall of Berlin? Or will you wait with that until you have a better idea of how the map will look at that time?
In the mean time, I look forward to future engagements between the Kriegsmarine and the Red Fleet. Hopefully, the days of the German battle wagons are numbered...
I'm inclined to agree with gooy - blame the Tzarist bourgeois technology
Otherwise I am awaiting the next installment in this truely great story and the Red fleet sailing onwards toward victory!
Otherwise I am awaiting the next installment in this truely great story and the Red fleet sailing onwards toward victory!
On second thought. I'm more inclined to agree with the level 3. After all, it shouldn't be less than the Nelsons or Nagatos, ships built in the 20's, and which Pdox classes as level 3.
Of course, same goes for the Andrea Dorias, but I guess they'd absolutely destroy the AI RN if they weren't lvl1.
I think it would have. After all, the Hipper was hardly touched. It could have lasted one or two hours more.
Me too, just too bad I don't have more time for it.
oI'm trying to keep purely Army info out of the AAR, but there will be some news on that soon.Stuyvesant said:
Too soon still. Anything can happen...Stuyvesant said:
Many thanks! The images are on the making!Control said:
The 1st of May 1942 wasn't a happy Worker's Day anywhere on the USSR.
But it was even less so in Leningrad, where the shock and sadness resulting from the loss of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya was combined with pressure from Moscow, demanding either someone to hold accountable or some great victory to compensate.
Only the vast political capital the Navy had gathered in the last few years allowed Kuznetsov to stall the issue for so long, claiming the need for a continued blockade of Wilhelmshaven, and that the Marat and Karl Marx were still perfectly fit for combat.
This Leningrad-Moscow dance would pay off, as about a week after Worker's Day, pressure was finally relieved by good news from abroad. The Vichy regime had displeased both it's German Masters and the French outside Europe to such a point that it simply ceased to be. The nazis declared full occupation of what little territory Vichy held, and whatever areas the Germans couldn't reach, declared for the Free French.
Unfortunately, it wouldn't be all good news coming from the other fronts of the War. In a greedy haste to liberate Brussels, the foolish Americans lost Ghent and got themselves surrounded, and with no harbour under their control...
...which in turn led to their loss of Dunkerque, and the complete encircling of all their forces.
Perhaps emboldened by these successes, the enemy launched an offensive on the 8th of May, lead by one of their top Marshals and determined to recapture Kiel.
As the Naval Infantry and their Army comrades bravely defended the vital Kiel Canal, hoping on a quick arrival of sea-transported reinforcements from the previously used port of Königsberg, news came to them that the Army had once again made the Navy look good in comparison.
Moral plummeted, and not even the heroic example of the Marines could keep the numerically superior Germans from breaking through.
It was noted from both battles that the Nazis, while again on the offensive, were sending increasingly less and less fit soldiers to the front. This possibility of a German manpower shortage greatly interested Moscow, and on the 11th of May Kuznetsov was ready to take the train for a meeting with Stalin on just that subject, when the news came.
Attempting to replicate it's previous success, and possibly open a sea route back to Kiel, the Kriegsmarine sent not only the Hipper but it's twin brother Blücher.
However, this time they wouldn't be given a chance to play the pursuit game. Closing in as much as he could while maintaining proper screening, Admiral Dolinin expected to use raw Soviet brute force to finish the German cruisers before they had a chance to do much of anything.
Unfortunately for him, his own ship, the Karl Marx, didn't have a crew experienced enough for the speed he expected of the manoeuvre, and it's first cannon blasts ended up on a Soviet Light cruiser.
The crew of the Marat though, some of which were survivors of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya improvising to help their comrades, didn't lose a second.
Properly screened, and fuelled by the rage that only Free Men avenging their fallen comrades could feel, the Marat and her crew fired again and again and again on the Hipper's hated silhouette. Each shell fired was a hit, and each hit was celebrated by all the fleet.
After 3 hours, and with the already recovered Karl Marx blocking the cursed cruiser from escaping, Great October's sister ship finally dealt the last blow on the Hipper, sending it to the bottom of the Sea, not too far from where it had committed it's crime against the Soviet People.
Justice was served.
In turn, the Blücher had escaped, but to the North, where it had no real place to hide, with Norway and Denmark both lost. Kuznetsov himself ordered Dolinin to spread out his forces and create a wide detection net, for the cruiser was bound to make a run for the south.
This would prove true, as one day after the battle, one of Leningrads aircraft detected the cruiser heading to Kiel not far from the coast of Denmark.
The carrier being the closest ship, it was decided it should start the attack, but this soon proved to be a wrong move, when the Blücher responded to the Leningrad's feeble air strikes with dangerous gun strikes. Fortunately the Marat and Karl Marx arrived in time, cornered the cruiser near the shore, and promptly sank it.
Almost two weeks after his humiliating loss, Admiral Dolinin was able to claim his revenge, with a sweet extra. He might just keep his job...
But without Kiel, only the Wilhelmshaven blockade protects the Baltic - and the loss of Königsberg makes holding on to Denmark all the more difficult! Our glorious Red Fleet still has much work ahead of her!
But it was even less so in Leningrad, where the shock and sadness resulting from the loss of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya was combined with pressure from Moscow, demanding either someone to hold accountable or some great victory to compensate.
Only the vast political capital the Navy had gathered in the last few years allowed Kuznetsov to stall the issue for so long, claiming the need for a continued blockade of Wilhelmshaven, and that the Marat and Karl Marx were still perfectly fit for combat.
This Leningrad-Moscow dance would pay off, as about a week after Worker's Day, pressure was finally relieved by good news from abroad. The Vichy regime had displeased both it's German Masters and the French outside Europe to such a point that it simply ceased to be. The nazis declared full occupation of what little territory Vichy held, and whatever areas the Germans couldn't reach, declared for the Free French.
Unfortunately, it wouldn't be all good news coming from the other fronts of the War. In a greedy haste to liberate Brussels, the foolish Americans lost Ghent and got themselves surrounded, and with no harbour under their control...
...which in turn led to their loss of Dunkerque, and the complete encircling of all their forces.
Perhaps emboldened by these successes, the enemy launched an offensive on the 8th of May, lead by one of their top Marshals and determined to recapture Kiel.
As the Naval Infantry and their Army comrades bravely defended the vital Kiel Canal, hoping on a quick arrival of sea-transported reinforcements from the previously used port of Königsberg, news came to them that the Army had once again made the Navy look good in comparison.
Moral plummeted, and not even the heroic example of the Marines could keep the numerically superior Germans from breaking through.
It was noted from both battles that the Nazis, while again on the offensive, were sending increasingly less and less fit soldiers to the front. This possibility of a German manpower shortage greatly interested Moscow, and on the 11th of May Kuznetsov was ready to take the train for a meeting with Stalin on just that subject, when the news came.
Attempting to replicate it's previous success, and possibly open a sea route back to Kiel, the Kriegsmarine sent not only the Hipper but it's twin brother Blücher.
However, this time they wouldn't be given a chance to play the pursuit game. Closing in as much as he could while maintaining proper screening, Admiral Dolinin expected to use raw Soviet brute force to finish the German cruisers before they had a chance to do much of anything.
Unfortunately for him, his own ship, the Karl Marx, didn't have a crew experienced enough for the speed he expected of the manoeuvre, and it's first cannon blasts ended up on a Soviet Light cruiser.
The crew of the Marat though, some of which were survivors of the Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya improvising to help their comrades, didn't lose a second.
Properly screened, and fuelled by the rage that only Free Men avenging their fallen comrades could feel, the Marat and her crew fired again and again and again on the Hipper's hated silhouette. Each shell fired was a hit, and each hit was celebrated by all the fleet.
After 3 hours, and with the already recovered Karl Marx blocking the cursed cruiser from escaping, Great October's sister ship finally dealt the last blow on the Hipper, sending it to the bottom of the Sea, not too far from where it had committed it's crime against the Soviet People.
Justice was served.
In turn, the Blücher had escaped, but to the North, where it had no real place to hide, with Norway and Denmark both lost. Kuznetsov himself ordered Dolinin to spread out his forces and create a wide detection net, for the cruiser was bound to make a run for the south.
This would prove true, as one day after the battle, one of Leningrads aircraft detected the cruiser heading to Kiel not far from the coast of Denmark.
The carrier being the closest ship, it was decided it should start the attack, but this soon proved to be a wrong move, when the Blücher responded to the Leningrad's feeble air strikes with dangerous gun strikes. Fortunately the Marat and Karl Marx arrived in time, cornered the cruiser near the shore, and promptly sank it.
Almost two weeks after his humiliating loss, Admiral Dolinin was able to claim his revenge, with a sweet extra. He might just keep his job...
But without Kiel, only the Wilhelmshaven blockade protects the Baltic - and the loss of Königsberg makes holding on to Denmark all the more difficult! Our glorious Red Fleet still has much work ahead of her!
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Sweet, two strong heavy crusiers down. Sutpid of the Germans not to screen them, but heck, it's their own fault. Widening the occupied area around Kiel, and perhaps sending there a tank division or two, might help defending it, if not even making gains there. On the other hand, spreading your forces like that may lead to a German counteroffensive in the east.
Nice read, as ever.
Nice read, as ever.
Argh!
Friendly fire AND a runaway CVL. If it didn't come coupled with good (excellent, bloodthirstily satisfactory) news, Dolinin might be in trouble.
Friendly fire AND a runaway CVL. If it didn't come coupled with good (excellent, bloodthirstily satisfactory) news, Dolinin might be in trouble.
Nice job, on the seas at least. Shame about losing your foothold in Kiel, but I'm more worried about the situation in Königsberg, since I assume it's right on your main frontline.
Still, it's only 1942, so there is still plenty of time to right the situation. With German manpower bleeding away and with the occasional spoiler invasion from the Brits and Yanks, you should be able to prevail in the longer term.
In the mean time, let's see some more Kriegsmarine steel on the bottom of various seas!
NOTE: You have a little cleanup to do on your last screenie, the one with the photo of the Blücher sinking.
Still, it's only 1942, so there is still plenty of time to right the situation. With German manpower bleeding away and with the occasional spoiler invasion from the Brits and Yanks, you should be able to prevail in the longer term.
In the mean time, let's see some more Kriegsmarine steel on the bottom of various seas!
NOTE: You have a little cleanup to do on your last screenie, the one with the photo of the Blücher sinking.
Emperor_krk - Notice how, even with no screening, they had better positioning. As for the Denmark front, getting more forces will be tricky at this point. The whole operation is a Navy thing, so the Army is not very pre-disposed to support it, when they're desperate for every division they can get on the Main Front.
RGB - Good thing too. Dolinin might not be a Naval Genius but it's not like the RF is swimming in high rank Admirals...
Stuyvesant - I have no idea what you're talking about
German manpower indeed seems to be lacking, but remember this shouldn't be out of manpower by 1942 anyway, especially if I'm not pounding them especially hard. I'm afraid all that means is that Germany has a larger than usual army for 1942, while I have the oppositeo
As for the Denmark front, getting more forces will be tricky at this point. The whole operation is a Navy thing, so the Army is not very pre-disposed to support it, when they're desperate for every division they can get on the Main Front. RGB - Good thing too. Dolinin might not be a Naval Genius but it's not like the RF is swimming in high rank Admirals...
Stuyvesant - I have no idea what you're talking about
German manpower indeed seems to be lacking, but remember this shouldn't be out of manpower by 1942 anyway, especially if I'm not pounding them especially hard. I'm afraid all that means is that Germany has a larger than usual army for 1942, while I have the opposite
o
Denmark is a side show, but i guess it is quite usefull for drawing German divisions attention. After all, Kiel is quite close to Berlin.
Its a good thing you can always withdraw to the islands, and use your ships for protection.
Its a good thing you can always withdraw to the islands, and use your ships for protection.