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unmerged(36826)

Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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Red Harvest

20030423-224720.jpg

Red Harvest is a designed as a classic, light RP and above all relaxed game, using the vanilla map and the traditional 1492 start date

GMs: Cobjor and Dr Bob
Stats
Time: 19:00 CEST to 23:00 Monday evening starting 10th of September
Scenario: Peter Ebbesen's Age of Explorations with a few tweaks


Rules:
1. Do not be unpleasant to play with
2a. Play long-term
2b. Be in time for session unless you have arranged a sub for you to play instead. This sub should be informed about time and mod, so that he will be able to play when the game starts.
3. Heed and listen to the voice of the GM. He will make the decisions. If you consider the GM's decision to be wrong, you simply say so and the decision will have to be observed and reconsidered. You will always have the posibility
to paus the game and tell the GM your own point of view. He is not a master of the players, but a servant. The GM reserves the right to edit the save, under circumstances that he states in public the edits he do. Others may do so if the GM has stated so in public. He may hand out punishments. If you feel that you have been unrightly treated by the GM, simply say so. Also remember that the GM is a player with the exact same rights as a normal player.
4. We will not do any edits besides edit requests as defined below, compensation for being AI (how much depends on the circumstances), to eliminate the effects of what the GMs consider to be game bugs that the player cannot foresee

Detailed rules:

1. There is a forced peace rule to prevent eternal wars:
If you have been at war for 5 years or more with another nation
- and that nations sends you a stab hitting peace offer
- and you are at stab -3
- and the peace offer is based upon a war score of -99 for you,
then you must accept the stab hit peace offer.
Note: it is recommended that you pause the game and inform your opponent that you are about to force him to a peace this way, then he can check the current WS.

2. Vassalship between humans.
If you are vassalised by another human
a) you must stay as a vassal at least 20 years (the vassaliser may cancel the vasssalship any time he wants)
b) you cannot enter any other alliance than that of your master
c) you must accept a proposal of alliance/TA/MA from your Master
d) you cannot start a war or join a war without consent from your Master
e) apart from that you may do anything you want

3. If you give an opponent MA in a peace treaty you are not allowed to revoke it until 20 years have passed


4. When unpredicted situations occur during the game the GM may, after consulting the players, issue additional ad hoc rules to deal with the situation. A good example is if a human nation is AIed, the GM may then state whether this nation is on-limits or off-limits.

5. Cores.
You will have cores on
- those provinces that are your cores in the starting file
- before each session (except the first) you may claim one core anywhere in the world

6. The land/naval slider is locked between 3 and 7, if it is outside the range at the end of a session it will be editted back

7. You may claim one culture, if you control 75% of its provinces for 50 years

8. Persian and chinese culture provinces cannot be taken before 1650 by anyone

9. It is forbidden to

a) attack an enemy fleet with pirates, as well as comparatively very small fleets to inhibit loading/landing

b) As a naval nation (a nation with the land/naval slider below 5) to sign a TA's with other human played naval nations (if you, after having signed a TA with such a nation, then move the slider below 5 you must immediately remove the TA)

c) Release one or more vassals during wartime, to hinder an enemy

d) Force-burn a manufactory, i.e. repeated move and halt orders to an army in a province with a manufactory

e) If you change religion from catholic to counter-reformed you may not switch back until the edict of Tolerance

f) Declare a 'fake' war on a country with the agreed aim of either
1. increasing the stability of the nation you declare war on,
or
2. to change the religion of a protestant or Counter-Reformed-Catholic nation back to Catholicism before the Edict of Tolerance.
or
3. to lose TPs in order to get rid of BB points

g) Exploit simultanity, i.e. using the game engine to break a deal that would occur simultaneously in the real word. This includes (but is not limited to) the 'sale' of something in game.
"An agreement about a deal must only be fulfilled when a transaction that is part of the fulfillment of the deal occurs. If e.g. two parties agree to sell a province the time of no return occurs when the buying party starts sending money or DOWs to take the province, whatever occurs first. However, this may not be done before the other party has agreed that this is the time to go ahead and realising the deal. It is recommended by the GM that deals like this is publicly announced before taken in action, this to prevent misunderstandings or such."

h) Trade maps with the AI.

i) Sign a peace deal with the AI that bankrupts it in the same day (a rarely used bug)

j) Use lag to your advantage. This includes (but is not limited to): Sending lag colonists, building lag fortresses, sending lag missionaries, using lag diplomats. (The exceptions are using lag diplomats to send cash and for the host to take advantage of the lag of the players).


The GM reserve the right to penalise players who violate these rules.


Just because their is something that is not mentioned here does not mean you are free and encouraged to do it, I ask for the players to use their own common sense in such cases or report it to me or cobjor if you are still unsure.


As well as the rules states above I'd like to keep the game away from the powergaming so common in most games, again this is up to the players really, but a good rule of thumb is to think about whether the real life monarchs would assemble a fleet of exactly 100 transports to give to their explorer etc

Dr Bob said:
Not powergaming is obviously not an easy thing to define so I'll try giving a few examples of things I'd prefer not to happen in this game

Things such as
  • BB and Austria peacefully dividing up Germany and spending the first 15 years annexing and force vassalising the HRE, Austria and to a lesser extent BB should see the HRE as their duty to protect
  • England spending the first 150 years at peace then joining in fights by using massed cannon and an uber leader
  • An eternal border/alliance (usually this is caused by players being on good terms with each other, as hopefully most of us here are on good terms I hope that it will mean people feel less constrained with regards to diplomacy)
  • Russia not attacking the west till 1770
  • Massed TA's to make sure that 4 naval nations control all trade
  • Restraint in regards to ending a war, if you are being beaten but think you may be able to turn it round with a total war think twice about what happened irl. Similiarly if you are winning, be happy with modest gains and don't keep raising the demands if they don't surrender at once.

If you want further clarification just shout, hope this gives an idea of the flavor I want the game to have :)

Ontime rewards: -0.5 inflation or -1BB
AAR rewards: -1 inflation, -2BB or 500 ducats

P.S thanks Mioz for the name :)
 
Last edited:

unmerged(36826)

Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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Discussion of random leaders and/or peace limits

Suggested leaders

2 leaders, generals or admirals chosen by the player

Before 1650:
2-5 stats, 2.8 average
15-30 lifespan, 25 average

After 1650:
2-5 stats, 3.4 average
15-30 lifespan, 25 average

After 1795:
2-5 stats, 3.8 average
15-30 lifespan, 25 average
 
Last edited:

unmerged(36826)

Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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England: Absolut 206522909
France: Mioz 316831222
Spain: Grabah
Austria: Engel 236188964
Brandenburg: Lurken 267216225
Sweden: Joohoo 298342882
Russia: Dr Bob 486893299
Ottoman Empire: Krisz 414384678
Porto: Ulmschmit 358177563

Stats

Edits for the coming week:
AAR/ontime shizzle
Muscovy and BB moved to land 7
Porto to land 3


Swedish edits:
£1000
£2000 investment into land tech
2 DPs (+2 offensive)
Tax Collectors promoted everywhere
 
Last edited:

unmerged(14689)

The Beast from the East
Feb 12, 2003
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BB and Austria peacefully dividing up Germany and spending the first 15 years annexing and force vassalising the HRE, Austria and to a lesser extent BB should see the HRE as their duty to protect

I agree that this is powergaming, but won't this doom my poor little BB to stay a 3-prov minor until Poland eats me? :p Sweden and Poland will surely expand. And they did so historically, so that would not count as "powergaming".

Just trying to get used to these "rules" of non-powergaming... :)
 

unmerged(36826)

Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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For BB it is less integral, you as a country want to expand inside and outside the holy roman empire as much as possible and so should go for it, in however you want to go about it.

Austria should want to stop you doing this as the Emperor's prime duty is to protect the HRE, not the peaceful partition of it.

However, neither of you want non germans to take great swathes of the HRE either and may act together in its defence.

Although ofc the reformation could shake things up radically, that is up to you.

This is just my vision of how a non-powergaming Germany should operate, yours may be totally different, but this sort of historically feasible situation and attitude is what I am looking for.
 

EarendilHE

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randoms:
till 1650 average 2,8 max 4
till 1790 average 3,2 max 5
after that average 3,5 max 5
 

Van Engel

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Suvorov said:
I agree that this is powergaming, but won't this doom my poor little BB to stay a 3-prov minor until Poland eats me? :p Sweden and Poland will surely expand. And they did so historically, so that would not count as "powergaming".

Just trying to get used to these "rules" of non-powergaming... :)
I suggest you add me on ICQ. :)
 

unmerged(14689)

The Beast from the East
Feb 12, 2003
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Dr Bob said:
For BB it is less integral, you as a country want to expand inside and outside the holy roman empire as much as possible and so should go for it, in however you want to go about it.

Austria should want to stop you doing this as the Emperor's prime duty is to protect the HRE, not the peaceful partition of it.

However, neither of you want non germans to take great swathes of the HRE either and may act together in its defence.

Although ofc the reformation could shake things up radically, that is up to you.

This is just my vision of how a non-powergaming Germany should operate, yours may be totally different, but this sort of historically feasible situation and attitude is what I am looking for.

OK, sounds good. More movement on the diplomatic scene is always interesting. Really hope this works out as good as it sounds. :)
 

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Ok, just read through the rules:

* we can claim 3 cultures? :eek: Sounds a bit sick, 1 is preferable with 2 as a maximum for me

* I see we can't claim our culture cores, maybe we should be able too? :)

Edit: oh yes, I didn't comment about it yesterday but why don't we host a hamachi game on the lan like it's meant to be used? I'm sure it will run smother.
 
Dec 17, 2004
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And Bob forgot the land/naval rule (3/7 max)

We also needs some kind of being on time rule.
 

unmerged(34338)

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Sep 15, 2004
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cobjor said:
Hmmmm.... 3 cultures is a bit too much for my taste. Need to think about that one.

I am against the claiming of any culture tbh. In this game anyway. I think it promotes powergaming.
 

unmerged(36826)

Antipope
Dec 11, 2004
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I actually agree with Mioz here, I have taken out the culture claiming section and replaced it with the locked land slider rule

cookies are listed at the bottom of post 1 :)