Red Clydeside

[Seumas]

Has there been any talk of including Red Clydeside as a potential challenge for the UK early in the game? If so, is it possible for a second, larger, Battle of George Square to trigger, and for a Communist player to positively influence such an event happening?

 

[BrotherSurplice]

Yeah both of these events are before the time frame of HoI4 (1936-1948).

 

[Seumas]

You are certainly correct about the Battle of George Square (hence my note of a 'second' such confrontation), but Red Clydeside was not a singular event. Rather, it was a broad political attitude with a hardcore socialist foundation, which was certainly still relevant throughout the 1930s, and can still be seen in the politics of the region today.

But that's beside the point, I'm talking about the possibility of an alternative-history event-chain based around a communist revolution in the UK using the Red Clydeside history as context and flavour text.

 

[BrotherSurplice]

Woops, didn't see you saying "second, larger". Silly me. It would be an interesting thing to include, perhaps make the north of Britain a tiny bit more susceptible to communist rebels in the event of a civil war? I'd really like to see the whole of the British focus tree though, so that we can see what options the British have for making ahistorical decisions (siding with Axis, Comintern, etc)

 

[Seumas]

Fair enough to that.

 

[FOARP]

From what we've been told about the civil war mechanism, you can sponsor coups in other countries and it can lead to a civil war breaking out in that country. So, yes, playing as the USSR, it is possible to make civil war break out in the UK and back the communists with volunteer troops. Whether this will be worth the effort, however, remains to be seen - I have to think that they won't make it that easy to coup a major power otherwise the player could simply coup major powers and take over the map that way.

PS - you can read the DD that covers this at the below link:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...velopment-diary-20th-of-november-2015.891939/

 

[Seumas]

Indeed, and in that DD they begin with the example of Greece -

Greece was plunged into civil war shortly after the end of World War II. But what if the political climate of Greece was different? What if the communist power base was larger, and the war broke out before Metaxas' death?

I guess I'm wondering what the equivalent for the UK shall be? What sore of flavour text or narrative justification it might have?

What if the revolutionary socialist spirit on the Clyde had a resurgence in the 30s rather than becoming more moderate, as actually happened historically? After all, a communist uprising based in Hampshire or Kent would simply be less plausible, and thus less immersive than a similar uprising from Glasgow, purely based on the actual historical context of the time.

 

[FOARP]

I guess I'm wondering what the equivalent for the UK shall be? What sore of flavour text or narrative justification it might have?

What if the revolutionary socialist spirit on the Clyde had a resurgence in the 30s rather than becoming more moderate, as actually happened historically?

I think describing it in those terms really is something of a stretch. My grandfather was a communist, "radicalised" (in the modern parlance) during the 1930's, but none of them were very serious - it was very much play-acting. He would literally read the Daily Worker, agree with its editorial on the necessity of the building of the "Anti-Fascist Rampart" (AKA Berlin Wall), and then drive his Rolls-Royce to work.

We can of course play what-if, but the reality was not revolutionary.

After all, a communist uprising based in Hampshire or Kent would simply be less plausible, and thus less immersive than a similar uprising from Glasgow, purely based on the actual historical context of the time.

Hampshire or Kent perhaps not, but only because they are relatively unindustrialised (though of course, Portsmouth is in Hampshire and was a big centre for trade and Labour). However, London was a strong location for left-wing sentiment, as was a great swathe of the industrial North - particularly Tyneside.

It would take something very big to cause a civil war in the UK. A military coup (as in Spain in 1936), or a disputed election-result might do it, but there was no-one prominent in the military who would have seriously gone along with such a plan, and our electoral system makes disputed results very unlikely.