Recreating the Zoroastrian Persian Empire...is this a bug or a feature?

[Dahoota]

Starting in 769 as the Duke of Tabriz in ironman, it's 889 and I have recently remade the Persian Empire. As soon as I had enough piety I remade the Priesthood.

2 days later the high priest calls a Great Holy War (before 900) for the rest of Persia.



Two things:

First I can't join the great holy war, I guess because the high priest is my vassal?

Second, what's up with Great Holy Wars immediately unlocking, before 900 and either Crusades of Jihads? Is it because I don't control a large chunk of the Kingdom of Persia (basically treaty blocks with the Abbasids stpped me from taking it sooner).

I assume at least one of these is a bug or an oversight? I'm not sure which to report.

 

[balmung60]

I have no idea why you can't join - even if the religious head is your vassal, you should be able to join the Crusade/GHW/Jihad.

As for the fact that it was declared in 900, that's WAD. The Jewish and Zoroastrian faiths get the Great Holy War CB the moment their priesthood is restored, regardless of whether any other religion has unlocked Crusades, Jihads, or their own Great Holy Wars (the unlocking of GHWs for Pagans is an entirely separate event). It's something of a reward for restoring the faiths in the face of strong Muslim (and probably also Christians in the way if you're Jewish) opposition, which is generally harder than just gobbling up three holy sites and going on a tour of foreign churches as a Pagan until you can hit the reform button.

 

[Ultima_Ratio]

You can't join if you have a truce with the defender. Or if you're a heretic.

 

[Dahoota]

Thanks guys, that answers both questions.

Yep I took a look at the wiki about Great Holy Wars for Zoroastrians, that's correct and makes sense.

And yep I had a truce with the Arabian Emperor/Caliph (it's changed hands back and forward with the Abbasid dynasty a few times now).

The problem now is that it looks like the great holy war will succeed leaving me with my holy order as a kingdom that I can't vassalize.

 

[balmung60]

Do you already hold the kingdom (or shahdom) of Persia? Then congratulations, you'll get the land no matter who the highest contributor is (unless the wiki is wrong - I can't verify, as I don't think I've ever seen a Crusade/Jihad/GHW for a title that still existed in the hands of a member of the same faith as the one declaring the war), as if there is a same-faith title holder for the target kingdom, they get the land in a victorious GHW/Crusade/Jihad. I assume this will also work if you form the title (assuming nobody already holds it). Even if you don't hold the title, if you have a claim on it, you could get it anyway, especially if no other claimant is actually fighting in the GHW.

If you do not hold it or have a claim on it, you could try a few dirty tricks, like assassinating the Caliph to terminate the truce or taking risky actions (eg. start dueling anything with a pulse or hunting at every opportunity and always taking the dangerous options) to try to get yourself killed to terminate the truce. Or you could declare prestige to simply be a number and start back-to-back-to-back-to-back holy wars for the duchies you don't already have (or even just enough to form the kingdom if you can't already do so).

Or you could start planning to hit the Immortals with the de jure claim CB (the Persian Empire title gives you de jure claims on the entire kingdom of Persia) every ten years and at some point, usurp their title. Or heck, just usurp the kingdom of Persia - it looks like you have the land to do it - and then once the opinion hits are worn off, ask for them to become your vassals as normal. If you can't, work on getting whatever claims will work to take that land from them.

 

[Kardo]

Thanks guys, that answers both questions.

Yep I took a look at the wiki about Great Holy Wars for Zoroastrians, that's correct and makes sense.

And yep I had a truce with the Arabian Emperor/Caliph (it's changed hands back and forward with the Abbasid dynasty a few times now).

The problem now is that it looks like the great holy war will succeed leaving me with my holy order as I kingdom that I can't vassalize.

Since you hold the Empire and since the kingdom of Persia should still be dejure you should be able to vassal I've them anyways. I had the same issue occur with Mesopotamia, since it is usually firmly held by the Caliph, and I was able to vassalize the Immortals before I slowly revoked the entire kingdom from them.

 

[Dahoota]

As it happened it didn't matter. The GHW lasted 9 years with neither side winning, at first almost all my vassals and holy order joined, quickly getting the war score to ~60% via occupation (when I wrote my last comment). The Caliph finally came through and beat everyone in battle and the war dragged out with him slowly winning.

At that point the truce ended, I was able to join and win the war, still managing to get the top contribution.

I'm curious to see what would have happened, but in the end I decided to be expedient about it not risking getting stuck with county-by county dejure wars. I made k_Persia just in case.

Thanks for the help guys