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BasileusIX

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Did the Swedish ever try to reclaim their position as one of the great(er) powers of the continent, rebuild their empire and reclaim possessions like Ingria, Estonia etc?
Did they try to regain their position after the Nordic War or were they pretty much done for good?
Was there some desire to regain Finland and/or other territories after Napoleon?
 

Eusebio

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I don't know much about it, but I think there were two parties in 18th century Swedish politics: the Hats and the Caps. The Hats were revanchists who sought alliance with France to regain Sweden's lost territories. When France got creamed in the Seven Years War that was the end of that.
 

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I think Swedes did have some desire to retake Finland after Napoleonic wars. The problem was that Russia was simply too powerful on land. I think the best opportunity for Sweden to regain Finland would have been the Crimean war. If Sweden would have joined the war there would have been a very slight chance that Sweden would have regained Finland and earned Russia wrath in that process.

In a war against Russia after that, Sweden would have needed foreign allies that can provide her troops. Prussia wanted to be a good buddy with Russia ultimately in order to unify Germany. Austria could have been an ally but she had her own concerns in the continental including possible future rebellions in Hungary and Italy. Britain and France were more concerned about their own colonial empires than supporting Sweden in a war against Russia. The Ottoman Empire was barely able to defend itself. I guess it was good for Sweden not to get Finland back because Russia would have defeated her again and conquer Finland.
 

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I think Swedes did have some desire to retake Finland after Napoleonic wars. The problem was that Russia was simply too powerful on land. I think the best opportunity for Sweden to regain Finland would have been the Crimean war. If Sweden would have joined the war there would have been a very slight chance that Sweden would have regained Finland and earned Russia wrath in that process.

In a war against Russia after that, Sweden would have needed foreign allies that can provide her troops. Prussia wanted to be a good buddy with Russia ultimately in order to unify Germany. Austria could have been an ally but she had her own concerns in the continental including possible future rebellions in Hungary and Italy. Britain and France were more concerned about their own colonial empires than supporting Sweden in a war against Russia. The Ottoman Empire was barely able to defend itself. I guess it was good for Sweden not to get Finland back because Russia would have defeated her again and conquer Finland.

Great Britain might have thought that it was in its best interests to protect Sweden in this case, to deny Russia so large a Baltic coast. Alternatively, Russia might simply never have gotten around to do war with Sweden again, being preoccupied with other areas. Assuming WW1 still happens, we could see a Sweden on the side of the Central Powers, if Russia is too hostile.
 

BasileusIX

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Not after Napoleon as far as I know, but there were three wars against Russia: 1741, 1788 I think and 1808, all provoked by the Swedish side.
I'm pretty sure the last one was not provoked by the Swedes. The king did not assure czar Alexander he would join the continental system, because he wanted to invade Denmark alongside GB and stalled the talks. Alexander attacked Sweden without a declaration of war.
 

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Sweden spent most of the 18th century (rather incompetently) trying to reclaim the baltic provinces, so it definitely took some time for it to sink in. (Russia's traditional alliance with Denmark certainly didn't improve Sweden's strategic positions, and attempts to coordinate with the ottomans proved fruitless)

Someone mentioned the Hats and Caps, the Hats tended to be french-funded. (and yes, ran on a revanchist platform) the Caps *wanted* to be pro-english, but England didn't care, so they got most of their money from the russians instead, but foreign policy was only a small part of their divisions, they also had a lot of internal,a nd to some extent class-differences (the hats tended to be state officials, the caps, more rural)

There were two wars with Russia: The War of the Hats which was a complete and abysmal failure, Sweden also took part in the Seven Years War against Prussia, again with little success (although they did more or less wipe out the small prusisan navy) It's notable during this timeframe that the swedish army tended to perform absolutely terribly, while the navy, especially the coastal navy, had some success. Sweden lost nothing in the peace treaty (except a lot of money and men) and it's sometimes called the "Potato War" becuase allegedly the only thing gained was that the soldiers learned to appreciate potatoes.

The next attempt against Russia was Gustav III's russian war, which again saw the army doing basically nothing, although the navy won a great victory at Svensksund it was complicated by war with Denmark, diplomatic intervention from France, and internal issues in Sweden and Finland such as the Anjala League Conspiracy.

The war of 1809 was of course a complete disaster (and it's notable that Sweden had alienated their french patron by now, so there was no diplomatic support there, which was probably what had saved the country earlier)

Charles XIV John more or less ran a pro-russian policy (and the Union with Norway to some extent soothed the ruffled feathers of the loss of Finland, even if it was practically useless it brought some prestige) Probably helps that Jean-Baptiste had no personal emotional attachments to Finland the way a swedish monarch likely would have.

The last serious plan was during the Crimean War, when the swedish government had more or less agreed to join the war on the side of the allies, only the war ended before that. The hope was to retake Finland, or at least create an independent finnish state (there doesen't seem to have been a real serious plan, probably partially due to it being a very "let's try to grab the chance" thing)

In the late 19th and 20th centuries sweden's relations with Russia tended to be... Complicated, seeing as Russia was both the greatest threat and an important trading partner. (despite panic about communists, Sweden was one of the first countries to recognize the government of the USSR, and also one of the few that ackowledged the Soviet occupation of the Baltic states) OTOH Sweden had some joint-planned defensive operations with Finland, and did send significant supplies both to the finnish whites during the Civil War, and to Finland itself during the Winter War. (where Sweden was technically "non-belligerent" and not "neutral" in diplomatic parlance) (part of the reason Sweden was so completely unprepared for the invasion of Denmark-Norway was that a lot of material had been stripped from active formations and sent to Finland, including a not-insignificant portion of the small swedish airforce)

Generally after the 18th century the coherent police was to on the one hand try to maintain good relations with Russia, and on the other hand try to limit russian influence in the baltic. (hence in vague terms being positive to the indepence of Finland and the Baltic States) this is obviously a contradiction, and so swedish foreign policy oculd be... Schizophrenic (and that's disregarding the fact that Sweden's actual ability to influence things tneded to be miniscule anyways)
 

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It's also noteworthy that Charles XII completly depleted the manpower, with as uch as 1/10th of population being soldiers at times, not in active service on the battlefield however. Which helped solidifying Sweden as a third world country for a long time being.
 

soda7777777

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Too bad moments like this didn't happen again.
 

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I was recently reading about Russian war planning in the years leading up to 1914, and it's interesting that they took seriously the idea that if a war broke out against Germany and Austria-Hungary, Sweden might well ally with the Germans. In their plans an entire army was deployed around St Petersburg in order to defend against an amphibious landing in the Gulf of Finland or the Baltic States.
 

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I was recently reading about Russian war planning in the years leading up to 1914, and it's interesting that they took seriously the idea that if a war broke out against Germany and Austria-Hungary, Sweden might well ally with the Germans. In their plans an entire army was deployed around St Petersburg in order to defend against an amphibious landing in the Gulf of Finland or the Baltic States.

You should remember that in 1914, Germany did have the most powerful navy in the Baltic Sea and they had the Kiel Channel which helped moving German warships between the Baltic Sea and the North Sea. Also, in 1914 no one had the experiences of the Gallipoli campaign regarding the difficult amphibious landings really were.

In 1918, Germany did make some amphibious landings for example against the Reds in the Finnish civil war. By then, the Russian resistance against Germany had crumbled and there were no organized resistance. Germans also supported these landings by using their dreadnoughts to provide fire support.
 

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You should remember that in 1914, Germany did have the most powerful navy in the Baltic Sea and they had the Kiel Channel which helped moving German warships between the Baltic Sea and the North Sea.
Of course. But the Russian situation assessments and planning documents talked about a Swedish landing with German support, rather than a German landing, as the main threat to guard against. It was assumed the German Army would be busy in East Prussia.
 

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Of course. But the Russian situation assessments and planning documents talked about a Swedish landing with German support, rather than a German landing, as the main threat to guard against. It was assumed the German Army would be busy in East Prussia.

The German Navy could provide fire support in such a scenario while Swedish troops would do the landing. AFAIK, Germany and Sweden never practiced such an operation. Anyway, Russia probably expected the possibility that smaller nations like Sweden could intervene the war if one party would make them a lucrative offer. It is better to be ready to repulse such an attack than be surprised pants down. I think Russia had some 100k men in Finland in WWI to keep the local population under control and to make sure that Swedes wouldn´t come up with any funny ideas to support Germany.
 

BasileusIX

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Sweden could have joined the Russia bashing before/after Brest-Litovsk, they could have tried to seize Finland.
 

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Did the Swedish ever try to reclaim their position as one of the great(er) powers of the continent, rebuild their empire and reclaim possessions like Ingria, Estonia etc?
Did they try to regain their position after the Nordic War or were they pretty much done for good?
Was there some desire to regain Finland and/or other territories after Napoleon?

Ahvenanmaa/Åland islands between Finland and Sweden remained a target for Swedish policy for quite a while. In 1918 when Finland ended up in Civil War after Russian collapse Sweden saw her moment and landed troops there. There was no resistance and frankly the local Swedish-speaking population welcomed them. Not only due to nationalism, but as protection against Reds who had taken control of nearest Turku/Åbo region on mainland Finland. After Civil War ended Finland took the matter to League of Nations, which ruled that Finland can keep the islands provided much autonomy is granted. I'm quite certain a Red victory in Finnish Civil War would resulted in Swedish annexation of Ahvenanmaa.
 

Grosshaus

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Briefly. When USSR would have inevitably annexed Red Finland they would have demanded it back.

Demanded yes, but without an effective navy would they have taken any concrete action? Come 1939 most likely, but not straight away. In same way that Russian Reds signed a peace treaty with white Finland in 1920 or so.
 

__schon__

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Well logically the Torneå valley should belong to Finland and Åland to Sweden, but yeah.. Who needs logic in border drawing?
 

Andrelvis

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Well logically the Torneå valley should belong to Finland and Åland to Sweden, but yeah.. Who needs logic in border drawing?

Stability is a plus. Better to have stable borders that aren't 100% correspondent to ethnic realities, than to have unstable ones.