Rebuilding the Byzantium Empire

[Humes]

Hey all,

Hope for some advise. I've had a couple of ironman test games as the Byzantium to try and figure out a tactic to restore the empire.

When I start the game I start building galleys in all three of my provinces I also declare war on Albania then blockade them that nets me 25% warscore which is worth about 50 gold to the Albanians that helps me fuel my navy to surpass the ottomans.

I have noticed that after the war with Albania the ottomans move most of their troops to the turkey side I then watch with my navy and when they try to move their troops back to Greece I know they are about to declare war so I declare war on them first and blockade their troops from passing. I have also noticed that they lower their army maintenance when at peace at the start which allows my army to beat their remaining forces in greece despite its superiority.

Things seem like they are going well at that point I beat their navy I start sieging their provinces in Greece and get to about 16% Warscore but then I look to the north and don't like what I see.... Basically they get military access with Georgia, Crimea, Wallacha and just walk their entire army around to the Greek side.
I tried moving my fleet about to keep tempting them over the straight crossing only to keep denying them the move but they were too smart for that.
because their war Enthusasim is still so high I need to surrender a province at this point Achea (seems to be the standard).

I tried to let them declare war on me and hit the turkey side instead but Constantinople is worth too much Warscore and no matter who I ally with they never honour the call to arms (Cowards). I also tried scorching the earth of my provinces but again the ottomans have too much manpower for that to be effective.

So here I am seeking the advice of better men than I.. Best I can get is a minor defeat at the negotiation table.

 

[Wonderlust King]

Okay, so here's how I did this.

Before you vassalize Albania, ally Serbia - when you get dragged to the war with the Ottomans, they will dishonour you call to arms, therefore giving you CB. After that make alliance with Bosnia and Wallachia and start improving relationship with Poland.

Now you're ready for some fighting.

Attack Serbia with your whole army, obliterate them and carpet siege their territory: make sure to get 3 provinces alongside with Zeta (remember to core it later) so you could demand it and vassalization. However, do not vassalize them immidiately, call to arms Bosnia first - they will refuse, but that's ok, you need CB. DOW them after you're done with Serbia. Repeat steps from a previous war: call to arms Walliachia before making them your vassals. In rare cases they might already have for some reason alliance with Wallachia; if that happens, I'd recommend restart as this war sometimes drags a bit too long, it's best to take them on one separetely.

All this should be achieved in no more than 3-4 years. Also by this point you ought to have alliance with Poland and be working on relationship with Austria then Aragon if you can(these actions will put you above the diplo limit relations for the moment, but as long as the Ottomans exist you shouldn't bother yourself with that, though start working on annexing Athens after your first successul war with Turks). Crucial thing: Poland needs to have a PU over Lithuania. I consider that as a really important factor in my game as it gives you 2 countries on your side for the price of diplomatic relation with only one.

Now, the Ottomans won't find the way around your blockade: to get to you they'd need access through Moldavia (vassal of Poland) or Wallachia (your vassal); they're gonna get neither. Besides, Polish-Lithuanian forces will keep them at bay should they try pushing their way through. You'll have a sweet, calm time sieging all their Greek and Balkan territories.

Don't worry if you have to restart, it took me more than around 30 tries before I could get it working.

Good luck!

 

[Projekt 919]

Moldova invariably will give the Ottoman's access in the latest patch. Even with the same rivals as them and +150 Relations they will still view you as hostile and give access to the Ottomans the moment war break out in my (quite extensive experience).

 

[Humes]

Congrats on your game.

just got a question or two sorry.

If I vassalize Albania that would automatically put me at war with the ottomans because they start the game at war with Albania (the ottoman troops always make it onto Albania and now stay there before I can get there and Serbia even if in the war with Albania never moves his troops onto Albania). So I can vassalize them but it would kick off a war with the ottomans at a point when the ottomans have all their troops on the greek side?

So am I trying to siege Serbia's lands while at war with the ottomans?

 

[zodium]

Exhaustive guide to early game Byzantium.

 

[Humes]

Nice, I understand what Wonderlust king meant now. Thanks guys will give this a whirl... Don't think I would have ever thought to do this myself lol who'd have thought the ottomans would accept peace for just us conceding defeat..

 

[Wonderlust King]

Moldova invariably will give the Ottoman's access in the latest patch. Even with the same rivals as them and +150 Relations they will still view you as hostile and give access to the Ottomans the moment war break out in my (quite extensive experience).

This does not happen if you have Poland on your side, as Moldavia is their vassal. Plus, as I've mentioned above, they still have Polish and Lithuanian troops to contend with.

Congrats on your game.

just got a question or two sorry.

If I vassalize Albania that would automatically put me at war with the ottomans because they start the game at war with Albania (the ottoman troops always make it onto Albania and now stay there before I can get there and Serbia even if in the war with Albania never moves his troops onto Albania). So I can vassalize them but it would kick off a war with the ottomans at a point when the ottomans have all their troops on the greek side?

So am I trying to siege Serbia's lands while at war with the ottomans?

Thank you.

Don't fight with the Ottomans, just blockade Albania, that alone will give you 25% warscore needed for vassalization. After you get dragged into the war with the Ottomans, concede defeat to them. From this moment, you're gonna have 5 years truce with them, so you can easily get Serbia under your heel.

Edit: I can see that Zodium has already provided you with a really complex guide The only thing in it I don't agree with is the conclusion, that Lithuania under PU with Poland means restart. And Greek islands aren't a must too; I got them after the Ottomans were long gone.

 

[Pornek]

Edit: I can see that Zodium has already provided you with a really complex guide The only thing in it I don't agree with is the conclusion, that Lithuania under PU with Poland means restart. And Greek islands aren't a must too; I got them after the Ottomans were long gone.

It isnt as long as you can keep Austria & Muscowy/Russia as ally. However if Hungary decides to rival Austria, you need to create a path which Austria can use to send troops.

 

[zodium]

Don't fight with the Ottomans, just blockade Albania, that alone will give you 25% warscore needed for vassalization. After you get dragged into the war with the Ottomans, concede defeat to them. From this moment, you're gonna have 5 years truce with them, so you can easily get Serbia under your heel.

Edit: I can see that Zodium has already provided you with a really complex guide The only thing in it I don't agree with is the conclusion, that Lithuania under PU with Poland means restart. And Greek islands aren't a must too; I got them after the Ottomans were long gone.

Holding either Naxos or Corfu means that you don't need any allies at all, it is a crucial failsafe in the strategy. If the Ottomans ignore your allies' lands and come down with their full 40k+ doomstack, then you'll likely be beaten to a pulp. If you hold Naxos or Corfu, however, you can crush them completely: lure them there with a bait stack, scorch earth a day before they arrive, then lock them there with your fleet.

 

[FaceDancer]

I played as Byzantium and got back cores in Monastir, Thesaly and Macedonia. Crimea got beaten by Lithuania and Cyprus defect back to me from the Mamluks. Everything went according the plan till the insane second war with Turks. They massacred my army inspite of being outnumbered 2:1. But thats just nothing compared to massacre they funded Poland, my ally. 35k army lost to 9k of Ottomans. It's just ridiculous.

 

[Djoums]

Is the achievement disabled when starting with the Ottomans ?
I wanted to try that for a change, culture shifted to Greek, adopted Orthodoxy etc.. but the achievement doesn't seem to trigger

 

[PhilRuZ]

I am playing a game as Byzantium now and got very lucky because in the first 25 years 5 provinces around the Eastern Mediterrian and Black Sea revolted and joined me. I admit I cheated a lot though by loading back to old saves maybe I will do a Ironman game as Byzantium when I am better at this game.

 

[davinewrath]

It's also possible to handle a couple of defeats - you can release Crete, you'll retain a core there and they generally don't make many (if any) allies during the truce period, so are easy to retake. You can cancel vassalisation of Bosnia/Serbia/Wallchia and then use the freed-up diplomacy spot to work on getting a major power as an ally to deter the Ottomans/Venice. If you rebuild quickly you can revassalise them easily enough too.

 

[Qoff]

I played as Byzantium and got back cores in Monastir, Thesaly and Macedonia. Crimea got beaten by Lithuania and Cyprus defect back to me from the Mamluks. Everything went according the plan till the insane second war with Turks. They massacred my army inspite of being outnumbered 2:1. But thats just nothing compared to massacre they funded Poland, my ally. 35k army lost to 9k of Ottomans. It's just ridiculous.

How do you have so much provinces by 1519?

 

[unmerged(785851)]

The Ironman achievement only works if you start your game with the Byzantium tag.. Would be too easy otherwise

 

[Djoums]

How do you have so much provinces by 1519?

You wanted to quote my post I suppose, as said above I started with the Ottomans, not the Byzantium.

The Ironman achievement only works if you start your game with the Byzantium tag.. Would be too easy otherwise

Ok well I had to try

 

[Projekt 919]

This does not happen if you have Poland on your side, as Moldavia is their vassal. Plus, as I've mentioned above, they still have Polish and Lithuanian troops to contend with.


Thank you.

Don't fight with the Ottomans, just blockade Albania, that alone will give you 25% warscore needed for vassalization. After you get dragged into the war with the Ottomans, concede defeat to them. From this moment, you're gonna have 5 years truce with them, so you can easily get Serbia under your heel.

Edit: I can see that Zodium has already provided you with a really complex guide The only thing in it I don't agree with is the conclusion, that Lithuania under PU with Poland means restart. And Greek islands aren't a must too; I got them after the Ottomans were long gone.

Yes they do. Even with alliance and royal mairrage with Poland Moldova still gives the Ottomans Acess

 

[Rabid]

Does the vassal Albania tactic still work, I just tried it today and the OE wouldn't accept a concede peace offer. I've done it before and it worked.

 

[zodium]

Does the vassal Albania tactic still work, I just tried it today and the OE wouldn't accept a concede peace offer. I've done it before and it worked.

Did you remember to spend all your money queuing up units?

 

[Rabid]

Did you remember to spend all your money queuing up units?

I knew there was some trick I'd forgotten, thanks!