Rebels - suggestions

[unmerged(2156)]

I've got a few suggestions concerning rebels for EU2

a) the number of rebels should depend on province population and revolt risk percentage (NOT the economic strength of the province). Its logical that in a highly populated province there will be more potential rebels, and its also logical that a higher revolt risk = anger will make more people rebel

b) revolt risks should be adjusted downwards, perhaps starting at 2% and declining by 1% every 10-15 years. Perhaps it should be possible to invest resources in minimizing revolt risk in separate provinces (spend an amount of money, get a (small) chance of lowering revolt risk).

c) provinces with revolt risks ought to yield less money than peaceful provinces (the higher revolt risk you have the less money you get, simulation general unrest, riots, etc.). I know this is reflected in the stability of your country, but this is meant to be on a province-level, while you can still have a general lowering of income due to poor overall stability

 

[unmerged(5214)]

Originally posted by hlv
I've got a few suggestions concerning rebels for EU2

a) the number of rebels should depend on province population and revolt risk percentage (NOT the economic strength of the province). Its logical that in a highly populated province there will be more potential rebels, and its also logical that a higher revolt risk = anger will make more people rebel

b) revolt risks should be adjusted downwards, perhaps starting at 2% and declining by 1% every 10-15 years. Perhaps it should be possible to invest resources in minimizing revolt risk in separate provinces (spend an amount of money, get a (small) chance of lowering revolt risk).

c) provinces with revolt risks ought to yield less money than peaceful provinces (the higher revolt risk you have the less money you get, simulation general unrest, riots, etc.). I know this is reflected in the stability of your country, but this is meant to be on a province-level, while you can still have a general lowering of income due to poor overall stability

'

True.

But I don't think it's a big problem and it doesn't matter much.
There is alot of things that should be changed but when everything is changed we will have the perfect game...

 

[Carolus Rex]

c) provinces with revolt risks ought to yield less money than peaceful provinces (the higher revolt risk you have the less money you get, simulation general unrest, riots, etc.). I know this is reflected in the stability of your country, but this is meant to be on a province-level, while you can still have a general lowering of income due to poor overall stability

Poor stability in one province often caused poor stab. in the rest of the country, I think it is very well made in the game.
The only thing that really bothers me is the total lack of reality concerning rebel numbers.
Say Nivernais has got 30000 inhabitants. Suddenly a rebel army of 15k shows up. Itis swiftly destroyed. 3 months later anothe rarmy is up there, around the same size.

Sure, there are more people on the country side, but not that many.

 

[Sidney]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex


Poor stability in one province often caused poor stab. in the rest of the country, I think it is very well made in the game.
The only thing that really bothers me is the total lack of reality concerning rebel numbers.
Say Nivernais has got 30000 inhabitants. Suddenly a rebel army of 15k shows up. Itis swiftly destroyed. 3 months later anothe rarmy is up there, around the same size.

Sure, there are more people on the country side, but not that many. A lot of people lived in the cities.

Plus, there is something to be said for killing thousands and then hanging all the leaders from the gallows at every crossraods in the area. It might tend to discourage folks.

In reality, you VERY rarely had maurading armies of peasnts in the thousands roaming the countryside and short of the Peasants War you almost never had 10's of thousands.

I still saw a basic peasant revolt should let the province afire but have no "military" presence and only an "extraordinary" peasant revolt should spawn an angry peasant army. Peasant discord did not lead to sieges but in economic disruption, tax evasion and a decline in commerce whihc is what a burning province simulates.

 

[unmerged(3408)]

The only thing that really bothers me is the total lack of reality concerning rebel numbers.

Here, here.

I too would like to see the frequency of 20,000-50,000 strong pesant armies toned down a bit. I'd also like to see how these large armes survive seidges lasting over a year. Who plants the wheat? Or harvests it?

 

[Sgt. Bloomfield]

Originally posted by Petrus


Here, here.

I too would like to see the frequency of 20,000-50,000 strong pesant armies toned down a bit. I'd also like to see how these large armes survive seidges lasting over a year. Who plants the wheat? Or harvests it?

There, there.

Real rebel wars were comparatively rare and severe. I think it would be great to have Province Unrest, which is not an all out rebellion but which still leads to the province burning. In terms of game balance, however, the system as it is now works, b/c it puts the teeth into war exhaustion and potentially ties up a lot of troups. (Oh, how many K troups have I kept stationed in Corfu, Cypros, and Crete for 60 years after conquering Venice?)

 

[unmerged(589)]

While I agree with most of the views I just want to remind us that it isn't necessarily the peasants revolting. It could be angry nobles, or merchants or whatever (with resources to hire mercenaries for instance). A rebel and a peasant rebel isn't necessarily the same thing.

 

[Carolus Rex]

True, but it is not reflected in a good fashion EU, maybe you should be told who is causing the trouble, and if you beat the "army" and/or capture the city, you could get an option whether you want to kill him or do whatever with him. Maybe let him stay at his post. I dunno.

 

[Malthus]

I have a question - why do the rebels sometimes "take over" the fortress in the province in question? What factors contribute to this?

 

[Carolus Rex]

It is like they revolt, march out of the city and start siege the city. Tha much people cannot live on the countryside and there cannot possibly be that many people that hire mercenaries.

 

[maekh]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
It is like they revolt, march out of the city and start siege the city. Tha much people cannot live on the countryside and there cannot possibly be that many people that hire mercenaries.

Actually by that time the most people lived on the countryside...

 

[unmerged(358)]

Actually in most of the EU timeperiod the vast majority of the people in a province didn't live in a city... In some of the most urbanized areas of Europe, like several areas in todays Belgium and Netherlands, as well some of the larger cities in Italy (and probably some others too if you look at the provinces in the EU map you will see urbanization approching 50% while in mostly the rest it is around 10-30% of course depending a bit on your definition of city. And in the remote areas of Europa like Norway you had around 5% urbanization. That being said I also agree that the armies are generally too big in all cases. both the raised armies and the rebel armies...F. inst during Karl 12. time of invasion of Norway in the early 1700s the peasant army (which was only raised in wartime and then immediately disbanded in peacetime) consisted of 13 regiment of 1200 men each (=15600) and that was from all of Norwayand very late in the game..

Cobos

 

[unmerged(2540)]

What i hate is the unreal reble numbers as well. Someone, anyone,tell me how Ishafan can have a 45k army one time, a 15k army another time, a 60k army the next, and an 80k army after? that is 200k worth of rebels! Damn. Any way to fix this?

 

[Agelastus]

Originally posted by Honour_Shogun
What i hate is the unreal reble numbers as well. Someone, anyone,tell me how Ishafan can have a 45k army one time, a 15k army another time, a 60k army the next, and an 80k army after? that is 200k worth of rebels! Damn. Any way to fix this?

As long as rebel numbers are tied to the province's income, and the province's income is tied to stability, probably not. Did the 15k rebel force occur when the fortress also rebelled?

 

[Carolus Rex]

What we really need is a number of how many peoplethat lives in the countryside, how many that lives in the city and a country total.
That would make it all easier to understand and make those rebel numbers even more ridiculous.

 

[Agelastus]

Just altering the population so it's for the province, rather than just the city, would help. I know there are a lot of problems with getting accurate figures, but I'd accept an educated guess from people whose opinion I respect, such as Greven.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Historically they had loose control on population (guess), not an exact figure, but we should be able to have one since we are demanding gamers here!!

 

[Sidney]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
What we really need is a number of how many peoplethat lives in the countryside, how many that lives in the city and a country total.
That would make it all easier to understand and make those rebel numbers even more ridiculous.

Urbanization in Europe was, broadly speaking, less than 10%. Those figures could be higher in the Netherlands but substantially lower in Russia or Poland. A good general average is about 5% urbanization. again, the figures will vary but that number should give you something to work off.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Fixing the stupidly-large-rebels is tied to fixing the stupidly-large-armies. Otherwise it'll just be a joke, having 2,500 civilians rebelling against an army of half a million men.

 

[Carolus Rex]

Seems quite optimistic to me.