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herrmarisa

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Some peoples resisted for centuries after annexation, some countries always had to deal with various minorities and take them into consideration, and some nations simply had very hard time managing conquered territories due to local resistance. Some peasant revolts led to full-fledged civil wars with rebels often victorious, some religious fanatics kept their rulers of other religion in constant stress. For some reason the game doesn't care to actually transfer the feeling of struggle against rebels. You almost don't have to manage your conquests, just conquer something, wait for unrest to go high enough to spawn some rebels, kill them and be done with it. But that's not how it works. Some nations never manage to emerge because rebels are simply too simple (unless it's special mechanics like the Netherlands). You never ever see Greeks breaking free, then working hard on establishing themselves as a state with international relations and kick the Ottomans in the butt. You never see East Slavic rebels returning their land from Lithuanians, even though they made up the almost absolute majority of the population and military of Lithuania. Rebels are simply a pain in the arse at the moment, nothing dangerous about them. You almost don't need to manage your conquered areas, you don't need to deal with stubborn populations. After having gained about 20 provinces, the game turns into a piece of cake.
 

TheMeInTeam

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If you play slowly enough that rebels aren't a threat, then you shouldn't complain about rebels not being a threat.

The AI already gets shattered by rebels often, and so do players who expand heavily without factoring them. Despite your claims, nations like Afghanistan, Persia, Kazan, Greece, Algiers, Ireland, Shun, Perm and Georgia make routine appearances after being conquered (or never existing) thanks to rebellion. I'm not sure why you'd want to make the game balance worse (rebels more threatening than other nations) and less realistic at the same time, as there's no upside in making the game play less realistically *and* worse.
 

BarrosRodrigues

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odI8n0b.jpg


DjtjEvp.jpg
 

Krajzen

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I don't know what is more retarded: threads like this 'rebels are to weak' or threads which panic over rebels being TOO STRONG.


I am pretty sure there should be united 'rebels' thread where all of you can discuss whether are they too weak or too strong :D
 

gaius valerius

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If you play slowly enough that rebels aren't a threat, then you shouldn't complain about rebels not being a threat.

The AI already gets shattered by rebels often, and so do players who expand heavily without factoring them. Despite your claims, nations like Afghanistan, Persia, Kazan, Greece, Algiers, Ireland, Shun, Perm and Georgia make routine appearances after being conquered (or never existing) thanks to rebellion. I'm not sure why you'd want to make the game balance worse (rebels more threatening than other nations) and less realistic at the same time, as there's no upside in making the game play less realistically *and* worse.

The threat perhaps should be worse but not the impact. Concessions right now are linear. Letting them run rampant is tantamount to the destruction of your country till 1821 so to say. There should be more options to come to term with rebels, that vary between placating and destroying them.
 

bbqftw

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ChildeR

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I feel the rebels are fine for small nations, good balance of danger vs. avoidability, except for some individual events that may be a bit much. For large ones, not so much. Then they are both not very threatening and incredibly cheap to avoid.
 

Sunspawn

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I feel the rebels are fine for small nations, good balance of danger vs. avoidability, except for some individual events that may be a bit much. For large ones, not so much. Then they are both not very threatening and incredibly cheap to avoid.
The opposite - small nations get absolutely wrecked by even the smallest of rebel stacks, while rebels are reasonable for large nations.
 

BarrosRodrigues

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did you decide that HRE one-tag WC would be too easy and were looking for a real challenge? ;)
I was bored so I decided to experiment a bit with RyuKyu; I have played them before and I still have a save around that might give me TTM if I want it (from a 1.7 game where I thought I would not make it due to lack of ADM and ruined economy):
D6fDGx3.jpg
 

Freudia

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Rebels are fine. They're a bit iffy if they manage to spawn on mountains, like they did in my Nepal game last night.

Also, why should rebels be dangerous to begin with? Most rebellions were not threatening in real life, and in the game, the difficulty should come from the enemy nations, not from rebel whack-a-mole.
 

Draecesstra

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Rebels are fine. They're a bit iffy if they manage to spawn on mountains, like they did in my Nepal game last night.

Also, why should rebels be dangerous to begin with? Most rebellions were not threatening in real life, and in the game, the difficulty should come from the enemy nations, not from rebel whack-a-mole.

nope, the rebels ingame are meant to be a threat for your nation, thats their purpose.
 

BarrosRodrigues

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Rebels are fine. They're a bit iffy if they manage to spawn on mountains, like they did in my Nepal game last night.

Also, why should rebels be dangerous to begin with? Most rebellions were not threatening in real life, and in the game, the difficulty should come from the enemy nations, not from rebel whack-a-mole.

Lol do you think that 27 regiments spawning in a country that has a force limit of 6 and at 0 OE is fine? This should not be happening because without allies this is nigh on impossible to fight and even if one ruins the economy to win 5 years later the rebels will be back as if nothing happened. Changing the "recently rebelled" from a couple of years to 30 would improve this BS very much but nope because this game needs zombies. This is unbelievably broken but few people see it which is interesting to say the least.
 

ero_sk

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I think that current rebel system is way better than before. Wisely managed it is easier now to prevent revolts BUT on the other hand unwise management may draw the country into serious problem. That's really good IMHO. I just love to see arising tensions in province(s) and feel that something big is coming if not prevented. This is kind of a feeling I'm missing in diplomacy area as conflicts and tensions between nations very often seem to pop up randomly. Perhaps next expansion should be Art of Diplomacy?
 

BarrosRodrigues

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I think that current rebel system is way better than before. Wisely managed it is easier now to prevent revolts BUT on the other hand unwise management may draw the country into serious problem. That's really good IMHO. I just love to see arising tensions in province(s) and feel that something big is coming if not prevented. This is kind of a feeling I'm missing in diplomacy area as conflicts and tensions between nations very often seem to pop up randomly. Perhaps next expansion should be Art of Diplomacy?
Sure, I would love to see this forum if countries like France and the like got 200 rebel regiments at 0 OE in 1457 because of 5 unrest due to WE.
 

radiatoren

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And for them to be a threat to my nation, they have to absolutely cripple the AI. The AI already dies to rebels on a regular basis, and the player will always be better at managing rebels than the AI will.
The AI has some severe freeze-bugs. Much of the reason the AI is getting wrecked is related to those. There are exceptions where too low manpower destroys them or being horde in general, but freezes are a bigger threat. When that is said, the rebels aren't scaling very well: Having rebels spawn with sizes around the local supply limit is incredibly brutal for little Katsina since the total army allowed can't cover the supply limit in a single province, while for the Ottomans they are piece of cake since they always should have an army of sevel times the local supply limits. If it is too difficult or not, thus depends on the size of your blob. Ironically, aggressively expanding may be a good way to deal with rebels, since it will increase your forcelimit. If you go for a divide and conquer approach where you take as culturally and religiously diverse provinces it may become easier to deal with rebels, just as vassalizing is pretty strong since it makes it possible for you to ignore several of the rebel types that spawn in their country while reaping a forcelimit benefit.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Here is an example of how "not threatening" rebels can be:



The Ottomans previously owned all of Syria, Bulgaria, what is now Morea, Armenia, the Oman provinces near Egypt, Transylvania, and the Georgia area. If you look carefully you can see their land bordering PLC and down to Ethiopia. That was contiguous.

Then I fought one war with them, a war of opportunity to take revenge for them making my Tabby --> Persia run hard on me by backstabbing me while I fought a war against Timurids (that was a tough moment, loans and looting after giving stuff to Ottos kept me afloat). Their FL went from 180 to 88, and the only nation I made them actually release was Bulgaria. After their terrible run in with rebels, I annulled their treaties too.

Now keep in mind, the new rebel rules mean that this can be done to other players too. Rebels don't need to be stronger, the can already break 100's of war score free in short order.

This is ironman obviously, so lucky bonuses against rebels and whatnot are in play here too.