It would be cool if rebels could capture few provinces and then declare independence, with all provinces they captured.
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But a mercenary-turned-lord would not necessarily be recognised by anyone else as a sovereign, and so is surely best represented by the province still being part of the original nation, but rebel-controlled. If of course the rebel barons gain sufficient control to force the country to recognise them as independent, then they are well represented by a new nation. But that is covered by a nation's government falling. Of course, for those situations where just one mercenary lord manages to hold out sufficiently long to make it clear to all that he isn't about to be beaten into submission, we've got the 'province defects or declares independence after two years' thing. For those times when the country's ruler decides that it would be cheaper to just give him vassal status, we can do that. So mercenary lords are quite well dealt with in the current set up.BBBD said:
A nation will also declare independence after at least one of its eligible provinces has been rebel-controlled for 31 to 43 months (depending on centralization, the longer duration for fully centralized ; maximum one declaration of independence each month).Underhand said:
GoblinCookie said:
Ahh....but what if the provinces of their own culture and religion are across a border, as is many times the case?
Would an army of Polish rebels care about respecting the border between Prussia and Russia? No, I don't think so.
Your distiction between a peasant revolt and a more organized rebellion is noted but both of them are still illegal. As others have said we really don't know who the rebels are or what they want and I'd like to keep it that way. It leaves room for imagination.
If a change has to be made, then make the rebels more likely to attack provinces of their own culture. But they shouldn't care about borders.
I agree with the other gentleman that this would make it too difficult for the AI to deal with.
Now, I would like to see rebel armies move to defend what they've already taken.
In reality, new states often start out broke. Let them go into debt if they need money. Perhaps the program should be changed to make the new states take a loan (which would be used to build troops) instead of sitting on their hands. Plus, it's fun to offer loans to the independence movements of your enemies (and then possibly take the territory yourself if they default on the loan.)
ASAD said:Yessss,it's really annoying.
Try to conquer your neigbhours,to stop rebels crossing your borders. :rofl:
Build up fortress,good not only for rebels.
The downside of building up fortresses is, of course, that the bigger the fortress is the larger the rebel force will be if it happens in that province.
I like this one. When a new country declares independence and I'm not too busy I very often open the cheat window and use "event 94037" or "event 94039" a few times to give them so hope of surviving - otherwise new nations nearly always end up accepting complete annexation within a year.GoblinCookie said:
Most rebellions were well orginised, rampaging merceneries would be fun but they should be classed as "mercenery scum" rather than "rebel scum" if they are introduced.
Mercenery scum are created from normal units when a nations army reaches an obscenely high size and goes bankrupt trying to pay their mantinance. Unlike rebels ignore borders and head for the highest income provinces they can find and loot all provinces they come across. If they invade a province they will demand to be hired if they're owner doesn't pay up the merceneries will besiege the province's fortresses, if they do they become troops of that nation (they can still be disbanded). Merceneries take over the fortress loot it and move on to attack another province, which may be owned by the same country or not. They act like the current rebels do, they have no interest in defense and as the inhabitants have no loyalty to their merceneries they never count as fortified and will fall to whoever can besiege the provinces (it's owner, the owner's enemies or rebel scum)
Mercenery controlled provinces cannot declare independance and but the act of bieng taken by rebels reduces tax base by 1 point (it cannot be reduced below 1). Rebel scum are enemies of merceneries and the two will fight if they are in the same province.
Merceneries can however bring down governments, at which point the mercenery army counts as automaticly hired by the country they've brought down.
Mercenery scum are created from normal units when a nations army reaches an obscenely high size and goes bankrupt trying to pay their mantinance. Unlike rebels ignore borders and head for the highest income provinces they can find and loot all provinces they come across. If they invade a province they will demand to be hired if they're owner doesn't pay up the merceneries will besiege the province's fortresses, if they do they become troops of that nation (they can still be disbanded). Merceneries take over the fortress loot it and move on to attack another province, which may be owned by the same country or not. They act like the current rebels do, they have no interest in defense and as the inhabitants have no loyalty to their merceneries they never count as fortified and will fall to whoever can besiege the provinces (it's owner, the owner's enemies or rebel scum)
Mercenery controlled provinces cannot declare independance and but the act of bieng taken by rebels reduces tax base by 1 point (it cannot be reduced below 1). Rebel scum are enemies of merceneries and the two will fight if they are in the same province.
Merceneries can however bring down governments, at which point the mercenery army counts as automaticly hired by the country they've brought down.
How about you make it so that if a government falls then it will have DP effects as well as monarch skill effect.
The Monarch skill effect should reduce all skills toward 2, if there is an incredibly atrocious monarch 1 skill point at an ability their abilties are improved. The effects only last for 10 years after which the monarch has got used to things and things return to how they were.
I'd also like to see a change in DP in the following ways.
Serfdom is reduced 1-5 points
Mercantilism is increased 0-2 points
Centralisation is reduced 0-3 points
Innovitiveness is affected randomly by 0-2 points
Aristocracy is unnaffected, as I figured that the rebellion reflects the society in which it comes, a highly aristocratic society is likely to spawn rebellions led by aristocrats.
The Monarch skill effect should reduce all skills toward 2, if there is an incredibly atrocious monarch 1 skill point at an ability their abilties are improved. The effects only last for 10 years after which the monarch has got used to things and things return to how they were.
I'd also like to see a change in DP in the following ways.
Serfdom is reduced 1-5 points
Mercantilism is increased 0-2 points
Centralisation is reduced 0-3 points
Innovitiveness is affected randomly by 0-2 points
Aristocracy is unnaffected, as I figured that the rebellion reflects the society in which it comes, a highly aristocratic society is likely to spawn rebellions led by aristocrats.
Good idea, with an alteration.GoblinCookie said:
Some rebellions actually represent the nobility rebelling against its master (who is decreasing their power), or the merchant guilds revolting (like in Ghent and Brugge against the Dukes of Burgundy, against Centralization), so I wouldn't move DP-sliders like SERFDOM, MERCANTILISM in a given direction.
IMHO, all DP-sliders should move randomly (or not move in some cases), but in two-thirds of the case, a given DP-slider should move towards the middle point (e.g. if ARISTOCRACY is at 8, in 66% of the government's falls the slider should move towards low end - depicting rebellion against that policy -, and in 33% towards high end - depicting extremists wanting to see the changes go faster).
The reduced Serfdom represents the fact that in the turmoil, there are always some who find the opportunity to abandon the opressive restrictions set down by their own cultures serfdom, slavary, debt-bondage etc.
Mercantalism represents the fact that foreign mechants and industies are often targetted by mobs and the foreign industries often loose out as a result.
The Increased de-centralisation, represent the loss of state power too whoever orginised the revolt (be they aristocrats, middle classes, clergy or whatever)
Innoviteness represents the fact that a rebellions having suceeded can result in a more freer flow of ideas or can be used by conservative factions that dislike change to press thier cause on the monarch.
Innovitiveness should have a special role to play in goverments falling, as they determine the extent to which DP changes. A highly Narrowminded society that overthrows it's masters is unlikely to carry out highly radical reforms but an innovitive society is likely to do so.
On Aristocracy I've kind of decided I like lawkeeper's ideas except for a twist. The percentage chance of aristocracy changing, should be determined by the Innovitiveness of the country, a highly innovitive society is likely to be more willing to make reform either in the favor, or against aristocracy.
Mercantalism represents the fact that foreign mechants and industies are often targetted by mobs and the foreign industries often loose out as a result.
The Increased de-centralisation, represent the loss of state power too whoever orginised the revolt (be they aristocrats, middle classes, clergy or whatever)
Innoviteness represents the fact that a rebellions having suceeded can result in a more freer flow of ideas or can be used by conservative factions that dislike change to press thier cause on the monarch.
Innovitiveness should have a special role to play in goverments falling, as they determine the extent to which DP changes. A highly Narrowminded society that overthrows it's masters is unlikely to carry out highly radical reforms but an innovitive society is likely to do so.
On Aristocracy I've kind of decided I like lawkeeper's ideas except for a twist. The percentage chance of aristocracy changing, should be determined by the Innovitiveness of the country, a highly innovitive society is likely to be more willing to make reform either in the favor, or against aristocracy.