Rebellious vassals

[unmerged(176048)]

It's getting kind of tiresome playing "whack-a-mole" with vassals who acquire the rebellious trait. All they need is a couple of those random loyalty hits and secession or war becomes a real possibility. Then realm duress is just around the corner. I know some people find this fun, but I prefer a more tranquil realm.

What kind of things can I do to reduce the chance of folks becoming rebellious? I assume feudal contract helps- anything else?

 

[TempestDK]

It's getting kind of tiresome playing "whack-a-mole" with vassals who acquire the rebellious trait. All they need is a couple of those random loyalty hits and secession or war becomes a real possibility. Then realm duress is just around the corner. I know some people find this fun, but I prefer a more tranquil realm.

What kind of things can I do to reduce the chance of folks becoming rebellious? I assume feudal contract helps- anything else?

0% scutage .... they seem to like not paying taxes.

If you are using Royal Prerogatory law, then some will get rebellious, since they hate that law.

You can never stamp out rebellious vassals, but if there are not too many, just take their land and give it to someone who is a bit more loyal

 

[truth is life]

Basically, the best thing to do to reduce the likelihood of rebellious vassals is to not let them get the trait in the first place (don't let their loyalty drop too low). Instituting Feudal Contract, reducing scutage, instituting Elective Succession, and being Byzantine Emperor while they are Greek, Bulgarian, or Armenian (IIRC) will all help with that. So will out and out bribing them, minimizing badboy, or having the right traits. But don't feel bad, some people will always hate you

 

[Nick B II]

Reduce your vassal-count. Fewer vassals mean fewer chances for that one guy to get a bad event and screw you. It also makes bad events more likely because it's easier to keep 6 arrogant bastards in line than 30.

Besides you know that one guy who will always hate you truthislife mentioned? Don't make him a Duke. Make the guys who love you Dukes.

As Duke the only real easy to do this is make Bishoprics. They have no desmene limit, so you can create a Count-level vassal who controls all of France if you want.

Nick

 

[chowbeng]

Actually, rebellious trait can spring on any vassals, regardless of his loyalty or his relationship to you. You can't stop it from happening, what you can do how to control the problem.

First, you must nick it in the bud, by getting rid of him because just by having the rebellious trait he could and would spread it to other uninfected vassals. Think of it as plague. Short pain is better than long illness.

Secondly, you can do all Nick says.(no pun intended)

 

[unmerged(176048)]

Fewer vassals mean fewer chances for that one guy to get a bad event and screw you. It also makes bad events more likely because it's easier to keep 6 arrogant bastards in line than 30.

Are you saying the event(s) that add rebelliousness are *more* likely when you have fewer vassals?

If so (and maybe even if not) I might go and edit the relevant event(s) to adjust the odds. I'm thinking that if you have a lot of different dukes, none of them very strong, the chance of rebelliousness arising should be quite low. But if you have very strong dukes (who are not your heir) then things should get problematic. Or if you have so many vassals you can't pay attention to them... that would cause problems too.

Now to see which events actually add rebelliousness...

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Are you saying the event(s) that add rebelliousness are *more* likely when you have fewer vassals?

If so (and maybe even if not) I might go and edit the relevant event(s) to adjust the odds. I'm thinking that if you have a lot of different dukes, none of them very strong, the chance of rebelliousness arising should be quite low. But if you have very strong dukes (who are not your heir) then things should get problematic. Or if you have so many vassals you can't pay attention to them... that would cause problems too.

Now to see which events actually add rebelliousness...

No, less vassals will make it less likely to get rebellious vassals.

 

[unmerged(176048)]

I wonder if the AI counts vassals according to titles, or as characters?

E.g, if I loaded up my heir with 10 ducal titles, does that count as one vassal, or 10?

Another issue I have is that I have counts as vassals who are in duchies (dukedoms?) that are not held by me. How do I get them to become vassals of their proper dukes? Will they ever transfer over voluntarily (i.e. at some succession event?)

 

[LordofSaxony]

Another issue I have is that I have counts as vassals who are in duchies (dukedoms?) that are not held by me. How do I get them to become vassals of their proper dukes? Will they ever transfer over voluntarily (i.e. at some succession event?)

If you have a vassal who is 'inside' the area of another duchy (the name), it doesn't mean that they are loyal to the Duke.

It's like saying that Odo Count of Kent which is a part of England switches over to France, even though he's in the Canterbury Dukedom area, it doesn't mean that he's loyal to the Duke.

If you want to get people to get in the proper dukedoms, you may have to do it by diplomacy, marriage, or by war. Like the example above, your the Duke of Canterbury, and Odo is in the area of your dukedom, but isn't loyal to you. You can either wait till he's independent and try to snag him up as a vassal, marry into his family and hope you get in the succession, or by declaring war on France (which he is a part of for this example) and get it that way, and then just promote a court member to the Count of Kent.

 

[unmerged(176048)]

At the moment I'm mostly thinking of how to get my vassals into their proper duchies. Suppose, for instance, that the Duke of Silesia is my vassal, and so is the Count of Upper Silesia. I'd rather the count be the duke's vassal, not mine.

One way to do it would be to take the Duke's title away from him, then give it to someone else. If the Count's primary title is Upper Silesia, it should follow the Duke title. But revoking titles is a lot of trouble.

 

[Snaake]

At the moment I'm mostly thinking of how to get my vassals into their proper duchies. Suppose, for instance, that the Duke of Silesia is my vassal, and so is the Count of Upper Silesia. I'd rather the count be the duke's vassal, not mine.

One way to do it would be to take the Duke's title away from him, then give it to someone else. If the Count's primary title is Upper Silesia, it should follow the Duke title. But revoking titles is a lot of trouble.

In my current huge realm, I seem to occasionally get events where a count that I didn't notice declaring independence or fealty to some other Kingdom suddenly wants to be my vassal. I usually accept (i've got over 100 dukes as vassals, don't know how many counts, 1 more isn't going to matter). My conclusion has been that he's become disloyal to his duke, and wants to offer to be the vassal of someone else, but since noone else is even close, he offers to me, the King. I think i've also seen my direct count-vassals move to be vassals of my Dukes (without any wars).

So, if said counts have low loyalty, the problem may solve itself with a little luck. The only real way of transferring the liegeship is when granting the duchy, I think (and then there's no choice) :/

 

[Nick B II]

I wonder if the AI counts vassals according to titles, or as characters?

Characters.

E.g, if I loaded up my heir with 10 ducal titles, does that count as one vassal, or 10?

Another issue I have is that I have counts as vassals who are in duchies (dukedoms?) that are not held by me. How do I get them to become vassals of their proper dukes? Will they ever transfer over voluntarily (i.e. at some succession event?)

Probably not.

They may get pissed at their current Duke and offer to become your vassal voluntarily. But don't count on it.

Nick