Rebellious - some noob questions :)

[S0ny B1ack]

I have a few noob question about rebellious characters:
1.Can you get rid of them without assasination (since they surely won't leave their position by demanding it from them)?
As a related question: at what age does charactes die (I know there are a lot of factors, but there surely is some average when its probably that they soon die)?

2.Is there some event, which would cause them to loose the trait?

 

[TempestDK]

I have a few noob question about rebellious characters:
1.Can you get rid of them without assasination (since they surely won't leave their position by demanding it from them)?
As a related question: at what age does charactes die (I know there are a lot of factors, but there surely is some average when its probably that they soon die)?

2.Is there some event, which would cause them to loose the trait?

1. I don't think they automatically reject your revoking of their titles. So you could try that.

1b. Usually in their 60s, depending on their health (and chance). Some die earlier, and some live on to be 80+

2. There are events, but whether a rebellious AI ruler would ever select the option to lose the trait, I am not sure. I would say it is unlikely to go away.

Depending on whether the rebellious vassal is a count or not, you could try to gain the ducal title for his area and grant that to someone else, and let him deal with the rebellious guy

Or you can wait until he finally declares independence and then crush him, take his title (and the BB hit) and then grant it to someone else.

 

[S0ny B1ack]

1. I don't think they automatically reject your revoking of their titles. So you could try that.

1b. Usually in their 60s, depending on their health (and chance). Some die earlier, and some live on to be 80+

2. There are events, but whether a rebellious AI ruler would ever select the option to lose the trait, I am not sure. I would say it is unlikely to go away.

Depending on whether the rebellious vassal is a count or not, you could try to gain the ducal title for his area and grant that to someone else, and let him deal with the rebellious guy

Or you can wait until he finally declares independence and then crush him, take his title (and the BB hit) and then grant it to someone else.

Thanks for the answer. I will probably try to revoke his title and if it doesn't work I have to wait what will happen (both rebellious vassals are dukes by the way )

 

[TempestDK]

Thanks for the answer. I will probably try to revoke his title and if it doesn't work I have to wait what will happen (both rebellious vassals are dukes by the way )

Good ... then you can just revoke their ducal titles and give them to someone else to deal with

If they declare independence, you can keep your BB hit down by only demanding their ducal title, let them keep any/some count titles (by recognizing their claim to the titles) they have and force-vassalize them.

Then just hand out the ducal titles to someone a bit more loyal

 

[S0ny B1ack]

Good ... then you can just revoke their ducal titles and give them to someone else to deal with

If they declare independence, you can keep your BB hit down by only demanding their ducal title, let them keep any/some count titles (by recognizing their claim to the titles) they have and force-vassalize them.

Then just hand out the ducal titles to someone a bit more loyal

I did that the first one refused to give up his title, so I declared war on him and at the same time the other declared war on me, so both were crushed and their titles went to me (of course I also vassalised them, it gave me together about 1000 prestige).

So the internal problems have been dealt with, now my new problem is that England declared war upon me, I have no idea how the King of England gained a claim on the count title of one my provinces :wacko:, but hopefully attrition will decline any armies they might send...

I have to say I love the unpredictable things that happen in this game, it keeps you busy all the time (and if Paradox decide to make a sequel I will certainly buy it)

 

[unmerged(78308)]

Can I ask why a vassal suddenly become rebellious? Is it random or are there things that lead to this trait popping up?

I never understood the rebellious trait. In my current game my two sons, whom I have spoiled completely, have become my rivals (another thing I don't understand) and one of them has also gained the rebellious trait. They have 100% loyalty towards me and a very good relationship (150) plus I have helped them and given them titles. Why then do they get rebellious? I have other vassals that I never helped and didn't spoil in any way, they stay loyal and don't get rebellious trait? Same basic thing has happened in earlier games.

For me it seems a bit random how it hits?

 

[jordarkelf]

Can I ask why a vassal suddenly become rebellious? Is it random or are there things that lead to this trait popping up?

The first rebellious vassal must have low loyalty. Once there is one rebellious vassal, other vassals can get events to join the rebellion even if they're 10 100% loyalty -- if they accept, the realm ruler gets realm duress, which sparks further rebelliousness and usually outright inter-realm wars.
The only vassals which will not become rebellious are those with the loyalist trait, the counterpart for rebellious.

It is vital to keep an eye on vassal loyalty. Once the alert shows up that a vassal has low loyalty, it may already be too late.
Try to keep the number of vassals down as a king: count vassals will not help you in any way, but they can spark a rebellion.
It is often better to take the temporary loyalty hit to remove an unloyal vassal from his titles, than to let him stay and poison your realm from within. What I sometimes do is downgrade a duke back to a count, then give the ducal title to another count vassal in the area, who has a positive loyalty increase each month. If any vassal has the loyalist trait, he gets a title first.


Keep in mind multiple factors decide loyalty, ranging from random events, to friendships/rivalries, to trait interactions, and to the laws of the realm.

 

[TempestDK]

Can I ask why a vassal suddenly become rebellious? Is it random or are there things that lead to this trait popping up?

I never understood the rebellious trait. In my current game my two sons, whom I have spoiled completely, have become my rivals (another thing I don't understand) and one of them has also gained the rebellious trait. They have 100% loyalty towards me and a very good relationship (150) plus I have helped them and given them titles. Why then do they get rebellious? I have other vassals that I never helped and didn't spoil in any way, they stay loyal and don't get rebellious trait? Same basic thing has happened in earlier games.

For me it seems a bit random how it hits?

Also remember that the Rebellious trait can spread through friends I believe. So if your two sons are friends, then the rebellious one can trigger an event for his brother offering him to plot against the liege with his friend, thus giving him the trait.

 

[unmerged(78308)]

Thanks for the info. It does sound sensible, but I don't have realm duress. And the funny part is my rebellious vassals don't cause me any problems. Another one however suddenly declared war in spite of a 100% loyalty and a good relationship. In that case it didn't matter since I had decided to give his province to another vassal.

Usually I try to keep the number of vassals down and mostly only have dukes. In my current game though I can't. I'm playing as king of Germany for the first time. Very very different to my earlier games. Quite fun also since I now discover events and functions in the game that I didn't notice earlier.

 

[jordarkelf]

Also remember that the Rebellious trait can spread through friends I believe. So if your two sons are friends, then the rebellious one can trigger an event for his brother offering him to plot against the liege with his friend, thus giving him the trait.

Rebellious vassals will try to spread the rebellion, to their friends and neighbours first.
If they succeed, the vassal either becomes rebellious as well and the ruler gets realm duress, or the vassal declares war on his liege.

If you have multiple rebellious vassals but no realm duress, they likely have gotten the trait on their own, and have not managed to spread it to to others.

It is very possible to survive a rebellion, as long as you keep your badboy in line. Do not strip your former vassals of all their titles, but just force them to become your vassal again, then try to raise their loyalty with gifts. Multiple gifts of 100G work better than one big one of 1000G.

You can also let some vassals temporarily remain free, but do not do so if they border another powerful realm and/or capital province is not in an area you have the king or duke title for. If you are not the natural liege, they will be far less likely to repledge once either your ruler or their ruler dies.
In any case they will never repledge while both rulers live: if they ever fought a war, they consider themselves enemies for life.

 

[unmerged(78308)]

Thanks for the hints. For some reason it's going quite well for me. From my earlier games I'm used to vassals being hard to keep (happy) and hard to get. In my current game they sometimes ask themselves to become my vassal! Certainly not something I'm used to. I've also had events I didn't knew existed. For example: My propaganda works or Aggressive vassal's plan backfired. So actually I'm in a very good position with high stability and prestige.

It seems likely that they got the rebellious trait themselves. My sons are rivals so they likely didn't share with eachother

 

[GaiusC]

There's an event to lose the rebellious trait; I got it sometimes.
I suppose one can look at it and see what really matters.
I'd guess that good reputation, high stability and high prestige all helps decreasing the MTTH of said event.