Rebalancing the game mechanics discussion

[Xdge]

To start off, this is a discussion on how best to adjust game mechanics for the better, as I noticed the game developers made a lot of tweaks from the tabletop values, that might be well-intended for balance, but ended up crippling some common mech loadouts more than it should.

I have looked at spreadsheet values done by the community and started comparing to table top values with equivalent modifiers. Here are some basic things to know.

Tabletop(TT) versus HBS Battletech (HBS)
Tonnage: Follows TT values fully
Single Heat Sink: -1 heat compared to -3 heat (x3 modifier for heat)
Slots: AC5/10/20, LRM 20 and Gauss take up less slots in HBS
Armour and Internal structures values are all multiplied by 5. eg. Head: 9pts(TT) vs 45pts(HBS)

Damage: Correspondingly, multiplying all TT damage by 5:
- AC2/5/10 do more dmg. in HBS. AC/20 same dmg.
- SRM2/4/6 do less dmg. in HBS
- LRM5/10/15/20 do less dmg. in HBS
- All Lasers, PPCs and Gauss with the exception of Small Laser do the same dmg in HBS
- Flamer less dmg. in HBS
- Machine Gun and Small Laser more dmg. in HBS

Heat: Correspondingly, multiplying all TT heat generation by 3:

AC2/5/10/20, SRM4/6, ALL Lasers, PPCs and Gauss run hotter in HBS
SRM2, LRM5/10/15/20 same heat in HBS
Flamer less heat in HBS (zero actually)
MG zero heat in both TT and HBS.

My first thought on this current balance by HBS was that it was probably influenced by Pilot skills and Stability damage, and tuning some weapon systems that might be deemed underpowered or overpowered.

A very good example would be AC2/5 doing much more damage in HBS (25/45 versus 10/25),
and all missile launchers doing 4x multiplier less damage instead of 5x damage in HBS.

Knowing all this, let's start with a few simple questions.

1) Should SRMs damage be buffed to 10 damage per missile since it is short range and lacks indirect fire ability.
2) Should Stability damage for missiles be reduced to prevent easy knockdowns, and better balance long range tactics against brawling tactics.
3) Should PPCs and Large Lasers be reverted to their TT heat values as they have been largely deemed less effective than the bigger AC/s and LRMs.
4) Should Flamers be reverted back to TT values with heat generation and unlimited usage?

Hopefully there can be a mod where we have easy options to play with different values:
1) One where everything is reverted to tabletop values and rebalanced from there including pilot skills and stability damage
2) One where we carefully balance based on single player immersion, making enemy mechs and stock loadouts better
3) One where we balance EXCLUSIVELY for multiplayer where balance is king, and more varied effective strategies can be played out, without any clear abuse of game mechanics tending to one weapon type.

Any input is appreciated.

 

[Tankqull]

just commenting the SRM/LRM points, you do forget to mention the TT cluster rules effectivly denying about 40-60% of your missiles to actually hit, this issue is turning your current 4x multiplier into an effective x6 to x8 multiplier. if you are going to increse the base dmg to x5 as everything else compared to TT you´ll end with x10-x12 effective multiplers...

 

[Voras]

The TT rules are not a very good comparison for the sake of balance, because the TT in itself is not very well balanced.

At the moment I have the feeling, the game gets it quite ok'ish, with LRMs a tad too good, and LL/PPC a bit underwhelming.

 

[Pineapple Salad]

Another thing to consider is that pilot skills completely break what would be TT balance.

Bulwark/brace lets you take half damage.
Precision strike can focus up to 90% of your damage on a single component.

Using precision strike with SRM+++ with +4 damage +2 stability is completely broken. Normally that 72 damage for 3 tons would spread out across multiple components, but with precision strike you can land 5/6 missiles on a single component.

 

[Kereminde]

Another thing to consider is that pilot skills completely break what would be TT balance.

You should see what tabletop Special Pilot Abilities let you do. They're even worse than the ones in this game. How about a free -2 to firing a weapon when rolling on 2d6? And you can stack that with something which halves all range penalties so your Long Range shot is at +0 difficulty?

 

[Domfluff]

1) Should SRMs damage be buffed to 10 damage per missile since it is short range and lacks indirect fire ability.
2) Should Stability damage for missiles be reduced to prevent easy knockdowns, and better balance long range tactics against brawling tactics.
3) Should PPCs and Large Lasers be reverted to their TT heat values as they have been largely deemed less effective than the bigger AC/s and LRMs.
4) Should Flamers be reverted back to TT values with heat generation and unlimited usage?

Hopefully there can be a mod where we have easy options to play with different values:
1) One where everything is reverted to tabletop values and rebalanced from there including pilot skills and stability damage
2) One where we carefully balance based on single player immersion, making enemy mechs and stock loadouts better
3) One where we balance EXCLUSIVELY for multiplayer where balance is king, and more varied effective strategies can be played out, without any clear abuse of game mechanics tending to one weapon type.

PPCs and Large Lasers are less *efficient*, but I'm not convinced they're less effective. They could certainly gain less heat, but there's always been a premium on single-hit damage over spread damage - being able to strip a single location away is a force multiplier, and one not easily captured by raw numbers.

Large Lasers in particular are underwhelming, but flexible. They have no minimum range, so they're useful as a sniper weapon and *continue to be useful at close ranges*. They are also extremely light in comparison to similar AC weapons.

For the other changes, I think I dispute your premise: "that might be well-intended for balance, but ended up crippling some common mech loadouts more than it should"

I actually think the opposite - so many more options are viable now. The *Shadowhawk* is a decent stock mech, ffs. AC/2's aren't a joke, and Light mechs - even dedicated Scout mechs - have a real and useful purpose.

I don't think it's perfect, but they've done a ton of quite subtle things to really put some depth into Battletech.

 

[Voras]

You should see what tabletop Special Pilot Abilities let you do. They're even worse than the ones in this game. How about a free -2 to firing a weapon when rolling on 2d6? And you can stack that with something which halves all range penalties so your Long Range shot is at +0 difficulty?

Can you please point me at the according rules? I am only playing classic BT table top, so never ever heard of pilot special skills in the TT before...

 

[Kereminde]

Can you please point me at the according rules? I am only playing classic BT table top, so never ever heard of pilot special skills in the TT before...

Campaign Operations, page 70.

 

[Jumbik]

From my experience the only weapon that is a bit off is Large Laser. It generates way too much heat to be usable in longer battles.

PPC on the other hand is good. I'm fielding Awesome on each mission and this mech is so reliable at finishing off opponents like no one else. The Stability dmg is also great to tip off the mechs that are unsteady.

 

[Voras]

Campaign Operations, page 70.

Ah, thank you! That is newer Catalyst Game Lab stuff... no wonder I missed that one out.