Rebalance Oil Resources to Better Reflect Real Production

[Bargey]

Currently, in Victoria 3, oil distribution seems to be rushed and not properly thought out. Arguments of scarcity aside, not even the USA or Russia can produce the oil needed to fuel an advanced endgame industry. Under any circumstances. Input goods shortages are the name of the game with oil.

On top of this, many areas of the world which were notable oil producers by 1936 have zero potential oil in Victoria 3.

Here's a list of some significant petroleum producers in 1936, in metric kilotons:

USA: 148,868 kt
Venezuela: 27,734 kt
USSR: 27,385 kt
Romania: 8,703 kt
Iran: 8,330 kt
Dutch East Indies: 6,438 kt
Mexico: 6,292 kt
Iraq: 4,011 kt
Colombia: 2,614 kt
Peru: 2,324 kt
Argentina: 2,202 kt

Source


Now here's that same list of countries in Victoria 3 in terms of total oil capacity levels:

USA: 186
Venezuela: 60
USSR: 330
Romania: 60
Iran: 60
Dutch East Indies: 80
Mexico: 50
Iraq: 110
Colombia: 0
Peru: 0
Argentina: 0


Clearly there's a huge amount of inaccuracy in oil potentials in Victoria 3, to a degree so bad that it's making the late game very frustrating and unfun, and some countries that should be notable oil producers have zero oil. Hopefully the oil potentials in Vic3 can be increased and re-balanced to reflect real world oil production towards the end of the time period.

 

[rus-chel]

No oil in Ecuador, no oil in africa save for Lybia, no oil in India.
Only 1 location in China, but Germany gets 2.
Mexico (post-war borders). 1 location.
And teach f***ing AI to build rigs and research techs.
i've said my piece

 

[RhoxOS]

Nice source. This would bring us closer to the historical figure. Thanks.

Although I think you made a typo and wrote the unit as tons instead of 1,000 tons.

 

[Bargey]

Nice source. This would bring us closer to the historical figure. Thanks.

Although I think you made a typo and wrote the unit as tons instead of 1,000 tons.

Ah, my bad! Ive changed it to Kilotons

 

[Zaamii]

I played as USA and was very disappointed in the late game when I wasn't even close to meeting my own demand for oil, let alone exporting any abroad. And this is with every tech research, best production methods and every single oil well and whaling station built in the country. By 1900 the lack of oil and rubber (because the AI wouldn't build any for me to import despite both resources being +75% price in my market meaning they would have made a fortune) made my game unplayable.

Well, that and The United States of America running out of arable land along with lag, but those are different topics

 

[Amorenkaire]

If I ever get the motivation for it, definitely gonna tie this in to an Coal Gas/Oil refinery mod I'm thinking of making.

 

[Amorenkaire]

Ah, one thing that can be said though, is that I think your source uses finished or processed petrol products, not crude oil itself. Another source I found seems to indicate the US had a crude oil output of around ~100k. The difference might come from it importing and refining crude from other countries like Canada.

 

[Bargey]

Ah, one thing that can be said though, is that I think your source uses finished or processed petrol products, not crude oil itself. Another source I found seems to indicate the US had a crude oil output of around ~100k. The difference might come from it importing and refining crude from other countries like Canada.

There is a page in my source detailing the production of finished petrol products, but the page I specifically used for this information was for crude petroleum and shale oil production.

 

[Evethor]

I would like there to be more Oil and other end game resources, but.
Every nation should not be able to do so, a lack of resources is a great way to drive conflict.

 

[exi123]

I dont even know why rubber has its own "resource", like oil, gold or coal. It is an agricultural product like cotton, silk, coffee and more: It can grow on plantains in certain regions, limited by the arable land in a state.

Its okay that the regions where it can be grown are detected and found over time, but it can be grown there, its nothing we dig out of the ground.

 

[Fawr]

I'd just like to add that real life end game production is only part of the story. Countries that historically didn't develop their oil production by 1936 doesn't mean that they shouldn't have resources

 

[Wolacouska]

No oil in Ecuador, no oil in africa save for Lybia, no oil in India.
Only 1 location in China, but Germany gets 2.
Mexico (post-war borders). 1 location.
And teach f***ing AI to build rigs and research techs.
i've said my piece

Sorry for the late reply, but there were only three small oil fields in Africa by the end of the game date. One in Morocco, one in Algeria, and a very minor one in Egypt. The vast majority game from the US and Russia, with some small ones in Europe that didn't meet demands. Persia and Iraq were also significant, but India only had one field in Assam and China had one in the Ordos Basin. Japan also had a small one, but other than that it would take until the '50s and 60s for most of the big producing famous wells to be tapped.

 

[Wolacouska]

I'd just like to add that real life end game production is only part of the story. Countries that historically didn't develop their oil production by 1936 doesn't mean that they shouldn't have resources

Luckily that's the direction they're going with the 1.1 patch, if you haven't seen the dev diary.

 

[Bargey]

Luckily that's the direction they're going with the 1.1 patch, if you haven't seen the dev diary.

IMO the direction they're taking in 1.1 is very poor with oil. Minimal research and a hasty slapping of oil all over the world, whilst areas that were incredibly important oil producers (burma, for instance) are left out entirely, and oil being placed in the wrong regions of countries that actually do produce it.

I really hope that map for 1.1 wasnt final and they plan to put some actual research into it.

 

[Amorenkaire]

IMO the direction they're taking in 1.1 is very poor with oil. Minimal research and a hasty slapping of oil all over the world, whilst areas that were incredibly important oil producers (burma, for instance) are left out entirely, and oil being placed in the wrong regions of countries that actually do produce it.

I really hope that map for 1.1 wasnt final and they plan to put some actual research into it.

Yeah, the same really. The barriers (return rate of investment, remote discovery, technology) aren't really reflected in game. An easy barrier to entry then means Russia can blow everyone else out of the water despite the fact that the large majority of its oil industry is dependant upon foreign technological import in the modern day because of how hard to tap they are.

I'd be fine with the possibility of it if some of these barriers were modelled and included in the game for some alt history fun, but without it it means even a historical unrest riddled Russia can become the oil king.

 

[Bearjuden]

Input goods shortages are the name of the game with oil.

So this is obviously true but I also want to point something out, which is that part of the problem is the game making it too easy for the player to get far, far ahead of the economic curve.

Let's assume that a balanced playthrough should end with the major powers looking sort of like IRL in power levels. You might be a little ahead, or a little behind, but barring a truly crazy game you should usually end up with a handful of powers roughly on the level of what real life had in 1936 - your USAs, USSRs, and UKs. In-game, right now, you do not have to be that good at the game to make them look like chumps. One big potential eater of oil in-game are glassworks, when you turn on plastics. But real world global plastics production in 1936 was effectively nothing; it wouldn't really take off for decades. Similarly, power generation from coal remained the dominant source of electrical power all the way into the 21st century, long after the oil industry had a chance to make its pitch to the public; the expected end-game power source should be coal. And in the same vein, it should be difficult to actually build enough power even with that to supply everything, since by game's end even the US, the world's premiere economy, had only reached about 70% electrification. Real life USA, despite having a very strong century, would in Vic3 be a huge underperformer.

So yes, add some more oil. There are lots of locations with plausible deposits that a different history could exploit. But it's also true that the game strongly implies to the player that moving to oil PMs is right and if you don't you're falling behind when in fact that should be the outstanding performance, you beat history by a large margin, doesn't-happen-every-game outcome.

 

[Amorenkaire]

I'd say for the USA electrification, a lot of that would be subsistence farms. About the only state (outside of building up large agricultural or gold states in the mid-west to west coast) that I manage to run through my peasants on is D.C. because of all the government drones I throw there. Can be quite difficult to employ people faster than they grow or migrate in.

 

[Wolacouska]

IMO the direction they're taking in 1.1 is very poor with oil. Minimal research and a hasty slapping of oil all over the world, whilst areas that were incredibly important oil producers (burma, for instance) are left out entirely, and oil being placed in the wrong regions of countries that actually do produce it.

I really hope that map for 1.1 wasnt final and they plan to put some actual research into it.

I'm actually in the process of doing some research to forward to them, if they accept it it probably won't be until 1.2. So far though, America looks pretty good, just with some stuff left out actually.

I think the biggest handicap for the game showing why some reserves were used first is the inability for oil reserves to run out. The Reserves out west didn't get tapped until the fields in New York and Appalachia started to dry up (although more would end up getting discovered in the region).

Edit: They should probably work in techs that split when certain oil provinces become available, but for now I think it's okay to represent most of it with the percent chance to discover oil.

Something better though would be the ability to prospect in other countries, if they ever add the ability to do foreign investment. The more I research, the more I notice that a huge chunk the of the smaller oil deposits around the world were discovered and developed by American oil companies, followed by the British later on.

 

[Amorenkaire]

I'm actually in the process of doing some research to forward to them, if they accept it it probably won't be until 1.2. So far though, America looks pretty good, just with some stuff left out actually.

I think the biggest handicap for the game showing why some reserves were used first is the inability for oil reserves to run out. The Reserves out west didn't get tapped until the fields in New York and Appalachia started to dry up (although more would end up getting discovered in the region).

Edit: They should probably work in techs that split when certain oil provinces become available, but for now I think it's okay to represent most of it with the percent chance to discover oil.

Something better though would be the ability to prospect in other countries, if they ever add the ability to do foreign investment. The more I research, the more I notice that a huge chunk the of the smaller oil deposits around the world were discovered and developed by American oil companies, followed by the British later on.

Foreign Investment is on the docket for their free updates I believe at least.

 

[Wolacouska]

Foreign Investment is on the docket for their free updates I believe at least.

Very good to hear!