Reason why fuel don't work well with the hoi4 supply system right now

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RikiBreeiki

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I think everyone here agrees that tank divisions fighting in areas with low supply should eventually run out of fuel.

The key questions are how low supply and how long time?



it can be hard to supply fuel, but if i can supply 700 tanks , i should continue being able to supply some tanks , it should not be impossible to supply because i brought in 350 more tanks , or moved 10Km away

, for time due to hoi4 battles lasting long, and people constantly mass assaulting, 2 days is too low, is pretty much nothing to push , you can get pinned by a force attacking 20w pure inf for 7 days , lose all your fuel and then experience extreme tank casualties worse be the one getting encircled ,

For how long , i think 8 days would atleast keep game playable,

but unless edge provinces are solved , even 8 wont be enough since human will easily hold for 8 days and bring his own numerically 5 times superior tanks and kill their enemies.,

fuel Flow needs to be a lot more diffrent
 

Tacticus101

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In your example you have terrible supply because the infrastructure there is completely shot, not because of lack of incomming provinces. The defending (German) infantry have their own supply problems.

I appreciate that edge provinces obviously make a big difference, but the destruction of infrastructure is usually the bigger one.
 

Bismark776

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The real issue is the non dynamic way supply is handled to begin with. Fuel just highlights the issue. If you pushed into a new province historically your supply would push forward as well. Here we have the static supply zones that make it all strange and complicated.
 

RikiBreeiki

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In your example you have terrible supply because the infrastructure there is completely shot, not because of lack of incomming provinces. The defending (German) infantry have their own supply problems.

I appreciate that edge provinces obviously make a big difference, but the destruction of infrastructure is usually the bigger one.



yes destruction of infrastructure is the other, bigger reaason, but about infrastructure, 30% of destroyed infrastructue continues to work so it can eventually be solved( example battle is in a 5 infra provinces, with 100% damage infra, 100% damage is neutral and best case :D if someone builts infra to 10 , it will be level 10 fully damaged infra but will atleast provide more supplies, there is also construction repair continous focus

but edge provinces are cancerous, and you cant repair infra or built infra by capturing an edge, which does help the defender of the supply zone even more ( DOSZ defence of supply zones )

Defender dont even want to repair the infra now , scorched earth at finest !
 

Mister Analyst

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yes destruction of infrastructure is the other, bigger reaason, but about infrastructure, 30% of destroyed infrastructue continues to work so it can eventually be solved( example battle is in a 5 infra provinces, with 100% damage infra, 100% damage is neutral and best case :D if someone builts infra to 10 , it will be level 10 fully damaged infra but will atleast provide more supplies, there is also construction repair continous focus

but edge provinces are cancerous, and you cant repair infra or built infra by capturing an edge, which does help the defender of the supply zone even more ( DOSZ defence of supply zones )

Defender dont even want to repair the infra now , scorched earth at finest !

Latest beta 1.6.2 bugfix just posted: "fuel flow through supply chunks that has reduced supply flow due to "Control of incoming edge provinces" will now ignore 50% of that penalty" . You might want to test this.
 
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RikiBreeiki

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Latest beta 1.6.2 bugfix just posted: "fuel flow through supply chunks that has reduced supply flow due to "Control of incoming edge provinces" will now ignore 50% of that penalty" . You might want to test this.
seems good, so i panicked for no reason and played with fuel defines for an hour today trying to achieve smth playable without deleting fuel, and now time to revert all changes :D
 

Jamey

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I think everyone here agrees that tank divisions fighting in areas with low supply should eventually run out of fuel.

The key questions are how low supply and how long time?
Actually, the key question is why your quartermasters are restricted from delivering supplies when you take the first province in an (arbitrarily drawn) new supply zone.
 

Alex_brunius

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Actually, the key question is why your quartermasters are restricted from delivering supplies when you take the first province in an (arbitrarily drawn) new supply zone.

Maybe because instead of 10 roads and 10 railroads leading into the new zone he just has 1 ( which is half wrecked from combat ) and it can only take at best 10% as much traffic?

Do you think it sounds realistic or arbitrary that you can't supply an entire panzer army through a narrow gap in the front 1 province wide where the bridges and infrastructure has been wrecked by combat?
 

Jamey

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Maybe because instead of 10 roads and 10 railroads leading into the new zone he just has 1 ( which is half wrecked from combat ) and it can only take at best 10% as much traffic?

Do you think it sounds realistic or arbitrary that you can't supply an entire panzer army through a narrow gap in the front 1 province wide where the bridges and infrastructure has been wrecked by combat?
I think it is entirely arbitrary that if I take the first province in an arbitrary supply area that I get almost no supply, but if I take a similarly isolated province in a a supply area that I control half of, it gets great supply.
 

Alex_brunius

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I think it is entirely arbitrary that if I take the first province in an arbitrary supply area that I get almost no supply, but if I take a similarly isolated province in a a supply area that I control half of, it gets great supply.
Each to their own I guess.

Historically Germany struggled to supply ~4000 light and medium tanks on the east front especially during offensives ( like when pushing into new supplyzones in HoI4 ), but alot of players think they should have no issues with supplying 12000 Heavy tanks.

If you want to to totally ahistorical things and think the game is too hard you can change custom difficulty settings to reduce supply consumption.
 

RikiBreeiki

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Maybe because instead of 10 roads and 10 railroads leading into the new zone he just has 1 ( which is half wrecked from combat ) and it can only take at best 10% as much traffic?

Do you think it sounds realistic or arbitrary that you can't supply an entire panzer army through a narrow gap in the front 1 province wide where the bridges and infrastructure has been wrecked by combat?
yes, it can be hard to properly supply units, but supplying units with some shells, food, medicine despite problems , is in the game, even air supplies are in the game

but tank with 500KM range moving 10km and running out of fuel because a pure infantry is force attacking it for 2 days was a lot more unrealistic, while still getting supplies but 0 oil ( like i can live without eating for 3 days, give me more oil not food )

there are also no railroad-road networks in hoi4, there is not a specific province that will give you enough supplies to supply your tanks incase you move more than 10 KM , and it would be unrealistic to ask for a reworked supply system in short time .
 

Alex_brunius

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yes, it can be hard to properly supply units, but supplying units with some shells, food, medicine despite problems , is in the game, even air supplies are in the game

but tank with 500KM range moving 10km and running out of fuel because a pure infantry is force attacking it for 2 days was a lot more unrealistic, while still getting supplies but 0 oil ( like i can live without eating for 3 days, give me more oil not food )

there are also no railroad-road networks in hoi4, there is not a specific province that will give you enough supplies to supply your tanks incase you move more than 10 KM , and it would be unrealistic to ask for a reworked supply system in short time .

I do agree that tanks should have limits closer to normal supply limits, and be able to operate for longer without supply. The changes to lower fuel need when fighting defensively in 1.6.2 beta should help a bit with infantry attacks not being able to "de-fuel" tanks as easily.


That was not what the argument with Jamey is about though, this was about the % of front controlled limiting all supply into new regions which I think makes perfect sense. Anyone that don't like supplyzones and the sometimes a bit wonky results they cause can play without them by giving HoI3 a shot where supply was tracked through individual provinces... You'll come back to HoI4 praising how well it's supply mechanics work and how much easier it is to understand what is going pretty quickly I think :)
 

Jamey

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Historically Germany struggled to supply ~4000 light and medium tanks on the east front especially during offensives ( like when pushing into new supplyzones in HoI4 ), but alot of players think they should have no issues with supplying 12000 Heavy tanks.

If you want to to totally ahistorical things and think the game is too hard you can change custom difficulty settings to reduce supply consumption.
This is maybe referring to someone else's argument, as I am arguing about the arbitrary nature of supply zones and how they cause odd effects on game play. I'd like to see potential supply/fuel problems be equivalent whether you start your penetration at the edge of a supply zone or in the middle of one.

That was not what the argument with Jamey is about though, this was about the % of front controlled limiting all supply into new regions which I think makes perfect sense. Anyone that don't like supplyzones and the sometimes a bit wonky results they cause can play without them by giving HoI3 a shot where supply was tracked through individual provinces... You'll come back to HoI4 praising how well it's supply mechanics work and how much easier it is to understand what is going pretty quickly I think :)
This is much closer to referring to my argument.

The fact that HOI4's supply handling is easier to understand than HOI3's (seriously, I felt like I got a PHD in HOI3 supply management from the HOI3 forums) doesn't mean that HOI4's is perfect.

I'd like to see logistics become a more interesting part of HOI4 without it becoming overly complex like it was in HOI3. For my purposes in SP, supply is a non-issue more than 90% of the time, because I plan my offensives using the arbitrary supply region borders and build infrastructure up to my expected fronts.
 
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MJAnderson

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The state/province based map and calculations was a critical design flaw in the game that was obvious from the start ---- my troops moved 10 miles but now my planes can't cover their advance because they moved into a new state that is ahistorically large? Sadly there is no fixing this and it continues to hold the game back.
 

Eddie121

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In the short term, supply grace, logistics skill and supply brigades should all increase the amount of fuel stored v/s hourly consumption.
Long-term, it would be nice to customize the size of fuel tanks for your truck, mech and tank designs.
 

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Don’t necro threads that are years old. Start a new one if you want to continue the discussion.

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