Reaper's Due Isn't Fun

[Sonmi]

Paradox please do not change disease rates or lethality. They are awesome as they are.

The only possible issue I have right now us that Agnatic is the default. But even that is okay.

Agnatic is not the default everywhere though.

 

[General Karthos]

Remember that you can set the major epedimics to "delayed dynamic" (which means Plague will appear no earlier than 1100 and no less than 25 years after play begins). After that it will become endemic. (Confined to one area.) You can also set minor outbreaks to "fewer". Neither of these choices affects ironman.

I'm playing ironman with Major epidemics on "Deadly" and Minor epidemics on "More". About 70% of people are dying of disease, rather than natural causes, but that's the way it should be, and it creates a HUGE challenge, which is great. Even with conclave enabled, I was always able to kind of waltz through the game starting as a count pretty much anywhere (even with an "impossible" start) and after 100 years at most, control the dejure Empire where I started.

At this level at least, court physicians are absolutely needed. Just have them have a high skill. If you have to bribe one to come to your court or search for one, do so. Just remember that RNGesus can affect what results come out, and that we always remember the failures of our court physicians.

(I've used experimental treatments three times, once for bubonic plague, once for smallpox, and once, accidentally, for slow fever. All three times, I got lucky and it worked, though once it cost my character his face, and once his genitals.)

I think the major thing is that diseases are now actually dangerous to your health. Unlike prior to Reaper's due where even smallpox (or leprosy!) was a minor concern. (Though IRL, leprosy DOES take a while to actually kill you.) And even with the Black Death or other outbreaks "ravaging" my territory, I only rarely saw anyone who died of them. Now, when I get a fever, my immediate reaction is "oh, is this gonna be it?"

So yes, Paradox, I say you've done a marvelous job.

 

[Kumicho]

So some traits do matter. Is there a list somewhere?


So there's a chance you will get a botched treatment even for the safe treatment. I think they should remove this malus. Either it works and you get benefit, either it does nothing.

That it adds another malus to health only condemns you to death for even a minor illness.

I don't have a list, but if you have a "religious trait" like Monk, Nun, Mystic, etc it's +5, and Renowned Physician is +10.

 

[TheDungen]

I'll add my $0.02 here and say that I agree with this train of thought. The disease epidemics are GREAT! The Black Death is AWESOME! The random you have dysentery/great pox/lunatic/depression/infirm/rabies/gout/cancer/etc is a bit much. It's even worse since those are all incurable outside some really radical treatments...

Even religious focus gives +1 health these days, the only +2 focuses which does not are seduction and business, which quite frankly are the most used ones anyway. Especially Business can really cut into your life expectancy by making you stressed meaning you'd have a full -2 health compared to what you'd have if you had chosen a +1 health focus.

 

[Kumicho]

Even religious focus gives +1 health these days, the only +2 focuses which does not are seduction and business, which quite frankly are the most used ones anyway. Especially Business can really cut into your life expectancy by making you stressed meaning you'd have a full -2 health compared to what you'd have if you had chosen a +1 health focus.

And yet having more than half of my rulers come down with *something* permanent and rolling the dice every couple years hoping for a good treatment isn't exactly my idea of fun... It's become not "if" but "when/what", and that's just annoying. Watching 3/4 of my children or siblings die of random things like cancer and rabies before the age of 30 isn't fun. Having to replace multiple councilors each year (they're not protected by WoL focuses or your court physician) isn't fun.

 

[FrosT37]

I don't have a list, but if you have a "religious trait" like Monk, Nun, Mystic, etc it's +5, and Renowned Physician is +10.

Being a monk increases the skill of a physician?

 

[Sonmi]

I'd say that the epidemics are done absolutely perfectly. I honestly start worrying whenever I see clouds of miasma heading towards my comfy demesne duchy of Barcelone, and that's a good thing. I want to fear plagues, I want pestilence to leave its mark on whatever land it passes through.

Lethality of the diseases and plagues is pretty much spot-on as well, when your character or a family member suffers from something, it hits you, and could very much spell the end, as it should.

I have minor issues with how common regular disease are though, I know they started fixing things like gout and cancer so that it isn't as common in children, but I still think it pops up a bit too often. I personally believe that stuff like cancer and leprosy should not give you so severe a health penalty right away either, they are slow killers, having the traits progressively getting worse and worse with time would be a more realistic and immersive way to represent the disease.

Another issue is how the AI seems to respond to illness, it seems like the AI rulers go with experimental treatments far too often, which explains why so many of them end up castrated, without a face, or lunatic. I'd probably add a modifier (or make it more important if it already exists) so that they wouldn't choose experimental unless they are already lunatic, are brave, or are trusting. I'd likely make them refuse treatment if depressed as well.

I love the prosperity element too, but I think depopulation happens far too rarely. I've currently spent 5-7 years in my cozy duchy of Barcelone with both the Dancing Plague and Camp Fever ravaging the countryside at the same time, and while my courtiers and family members fell like flies, the prosperity of my six counties remained completely untouched, which seems rather insane. 75% of the noblemen in the realm were killed, I find it bizarre that the commoners would have been survived the epidemics so well that productivity remained unaffected. (I also had un-upgraded hospitals at the time, so that's not what saved them)

All in all, I have to say that this is the best DLC CK2 has ever received though, especially if you consider the patch that came with it.

EDIT: Also, councillor events now pop up like machine-gun fire. They should definitively be toned down a bit.

 

[FrosT37]

And yet having more than half of my rulers come down with *something* permanent and rolling the dice every couple years hoping for a good treatment isn't exactly my idea of fun... It's become not "if" but "when/what", and that's just annoying. Watching 3/4 of my children or siblings die of random things like cancer and rabies before the age of 30 isn't fun. Having to replace multiple councilors each year (they're not protected by WoL focuses or your court physician) isn't fun.

Removing the health malus from the botched safe treatment would solve most of these problems IMHO.

 

[Kumicho]

Being a monk increases the skill of a physician?

That was what one of the developers/mods said, although I'm not sure who it was.

Removing the health malus from the botched safe treatment would solve most of these problems IMHO.

Not really, then it just becomes an annual click-fest...

 

[woody1jam]

Reapers Due is by far one of the best expacs I have played for CK2. My very first game as a Capet in the Viking Ages I died of a disease then my son got i power, he soon died because he got one handed and one eyed and then died in battle. So it then went to my little brother with his sister as regent, where she killed him to take power. I absolutely love it. Also, in my recent England game one of my councillors reached the ripe age of 75 surviving small pox.

 

[TheDungen]

And yet having more than half of my rulers come down with *something* permanent and rolling the dice every couple years hoping for a good treatment isn't exactly my idea of fun... It's become not "if" but "when/what", and that's just annoying. Watching 3/4 of my children or siblings die of random things like cancer and rabies before the age of 30 isn't fun. Having to replace multiple councilors each year (they're not protected by WoL focuses or your court physician) isn't fun.

No then what is fun? Blobbing against the clock? Not to me. Thus fun must be said to be subjective.

 

[GrafKeks]

Opinions. Everyone has them.

You can get health through martial education. Brawny also gives health, just like Strong. The Theology and Hunting WoL focuses also give +1 health, with the hunting giving you a further 1+ bonus when you get a dog. There are various pets that give health bonuses, though getting a rat probably involves time in a dungeon. Finally, you're more often than not going to have good health if you have a good court physician. That extends to your family members.

If you expect every character to live into his or her fifties, you have some unrealistic expectations and there is nothing more I can say that would convince you otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Variation_over_time

After they reach 21 dying at 50 is rather unlikely 57 is the lower end of the standard distribution. Please do not call other's expectations unrealistic when your claim is very fragile. Child mortality should quite high, but reapers due is overdoing it when it comes to illnesses

 

[ninoallen]

I Agree, im tired of seeing royal dynasties drop like flies, especially in places where medicines had already made great advances, like the byzantine empire or the caliphate.
why doesnt those areas start with hospitals already?

 

[liveandletdie14]

I think it is fine the way it is, you have to actually start taking better care of your dynasty and I can no longer simply just kill off all my male children as a gavelkind country just in case everyone dies.

 

[icedt729]

This all comes down to whether you want more fun or more Fun. Players who like fun want straightforward mechanics that leave little to chance and maximize player control- something closer to a pure game of skill. Players who like Fun can only enjoy themselves when there are cosmic forces beyond their control that can seriously disrupt or even ruin their games, forcing constant adaptation and risk-management.

Personally I lean towards Fun, especially in PDS games, and Reaper's Due has been awesome for me.

 

[DominusNovus]

I think cancer is a little too common (the leading cause of cancer is living old enough to get it), but other than that, its fine. Its frustrating, but fine.

 

[Kapitalisti]

I Agree, im tired of seeing royal dynasties drop like flies, especially in places where medicines had already made great advances, like the byzantine empire or the caliphate.
why doesnt those areas start with hospitals already?

I'm tired of royal dynasties invariably living on forever.

 

[JohnKR]

The Reaper's Due is the DLC that made Crusader Kings II great again. And i have to ask you paradox to not change the rate of deaths. Only lunacy and possesed.

 

[JohnKR]

I Agree, im tired of seeing royal dynasties drop like flies, especially in places where medicines had already made great advances, like the byzantine empire or the caliphate.
why doesnt those areas start with hospitals already?

Man where have you seen royal dynasties drop as flies? Cause i ve not seen one! Not even Karlings.

 

[omega20056]

50s should be common for most nobles. Charlemagne died at 71, but then he was above even the nobility.