Reaper's Due Death Rate - Upside Down Gameplay

[Arnold_Hendrick]

As the title says, players noticed that with Reaper's Due the death rate has gone way up. Historical pros and cons are noted below, but the effect on gameplay is huge. Players need a bigger family to keep dynasties alive. Previously a small, well-managed family was a key to victory. Regardless of whether you like the change or not, the balance between many other gameplay elements also changes, such as AI dynasties dying out faster and an increasing number of positions having distant relations or children as rulers. In more isolated areas, courts become so denuded of courtiers that competent councillors are a rarity.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037315351216/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037311294428/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037319235755/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037322376453/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037314527615/

And in this thread, a person asked "Who else LOVES this Expansion" and got complaints instead:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/203770/discussions/0/352792037313337649/

There are many solutions possible. I recommend giving the player more options about death rates levels, be clearer about the gameplay effects in the description of each option. In addition, during play, let people see the current rate, and change rates. After all, CKII is a grand strategy game with a very long play time. It's easy to forget the settings you picked days or weeks ago.


HISTORICAL NOTES

Prior to development of modern medicine in the late 1800s and 1900s, childbrith mortality was a significant threat, and child morality rates were also large. Studies of childbirth mortality rates in 20th Century undeveloped countries, or North American slaves (who had poor to no medical care) in the 18th and early 19th Century, suggest mortality rates in childbirth alone were 30-50%. Children who survived birth still had a very significant risk of dying before becoming a teenager. The absence of this in CKII calls into question the whole idea of vastly increasing disease death rates in the name of greater "historical accuracy."

In any game, "realism" must play second fiddle to gameplay. Otherwise you quickly end up with games that are impossibly difficult to play and give the player few or no ways to succeed.

 

[Furleppe]

Playing as Byzantine emperor is never ending "Grant Viceroyalty" click fest . I like high death rates but I guess they need to balance some things, maybe lower it a little, in the next patch. Or maybe add a Game Rule about non-epidemic sicknesses.

 

[Forderz]

The death rate makes your dynasty dying out a legitimate concern and encourages getting kin all over Europe. I like it :|

 

[Arona]

I think main problem is that, people wont adjust with new mechanics, they still try to play old way and they lose. I olways save money for hospital, and always hire 20+ learning court psycican and also help him get renowed psycican trait. And i newer yet died in illness or injury played 220 years on first game and 170 years on other one.

So problem are players who just cant adjust

 

[napoleon_mayo]

I would rather have a historical accurate game that is as hard as dark souls then a balanced game that is as easy as pokemon.

Reapers due is a step in the right direction. Casuals need to stop ruining my fun.

 

[vandevere]

I would rather have a historical accurate game that is as hard as dark souls then a balanced game that is as easy as pokemon.

Reapers due is a step in the right direction. Casuals need to stop ruining my fun.

I might have agreed with you but for your snipe at "Casuals"...

They paid the game too, you know...

 

[Forderz]

I would rather have a historical accurate game that is as hard as dark souls then a balanced game that is as easy as pokemon.

Reapers due is a step in the right direction. Casuals need to stop ruining my fun.

You know there's mods for that, right?

 

[Arona]

I might have agreed with you but for your snipe at "Casuals"...

They paid the game too, you know...

how about, dont buy DLC or diable it? We all make sacrifices i dont like many things but im still capable to adjust. So if you dont like dieng then sacrifice prosperity features and still can play fun game. Or just mod it up. easyest way to give 0 penaltys to sickness traits

 

[shiro the bushi]

on the bottom one at least youre wrong, counted the complaints, its really only two people saying it sucks, the rest either havent said their opinion or like it.

 

[GCRust]

Was slightly disappointed the Abbassid Blob didn't fragment when the Black Death swept through and started killing people. Admittedly, it was nice to see them overthrown in a Decadance Revolt immediately after opening their gates, but I was hoping to pick off some territory of theirs before the blob simply name swapped. Especially since my realm fragmented into individual kingdoms.

 

[Legionary Guard]

I think main problem is that, people wont adjust with new mechanics, they still try to play old way and they lose. I olways save money for hospital, and always hire 20+ learning court psycican and also help him get renowed psycican trait. And i newer yet died in illness or injury played 220 years on first game and 170 years on other one.

So problem are players who just cant adjust

Because paying hundreds, sometimes upwards of a thousand gold for a hospital upgrade (And thus basically neglecting the entire rest of my realm unless I'm raking in a hundred gold a month) just so my fifth consecutive ruler won't die at twenty is so fun. Contrary to popular belief, people actually lived for a decently long time if they survived infancy. I'm fine with diseases and whatnot, I just think the random event diseases should be toned down a lot.

 

[vandevere]

how about, dont buy DLC or diable it? We all make sacrifices i dont like many things but im still capable to adjust. So if you dont like dieng then sacrifice prosperity features and still can play fun game. Or just mod it up. easyest way to give 0 penaltys to sickness traits

Like I said, I don't mind the game as it is now. I just didn't like the snipe at Casual players...

 

[RagingJaws]

Isn't that why the very first two game rules cover plagues? You can pick any combination from those two rulesets without affecting Ironman, so you can neuter plagues overall by playing historical Black Death with fewer minor plagues. Minor illnesses really aren't a big problem in my last two games.

As for the overall illness changes and how it's affecting gameplay, I have to say it's pretty good. I'm in the camp of players that likes to see realms fall apart because bloodlines are being culled by sickness. I've never had a hard time maintaining a dynasty either, being that I don't micromanage my dynasty like some despotic gene-crazy overlord. The only change I would think is needed with the AI and dynasties is for them to start being more aggressive in landing their own dynasty members when able. Duke level titles only, so you preserve different dynasty counts.

If something must be changed, just make another game rule that modifies how often minor illnesses show up rather than mess with the default game settings. I'd be quite unhappy to have to resort to disabling Ironman just so I could have the game experience that we have now.

 

[Arona]

Because paying hundreds, sometimes upwards of a thousand gold for a hospital upgrade (And thus basically neglecting the entire rest of my realm unless I'm raking in a hundred gold a month) just so my fifth consecutive ruler won't die at twenty is so fun. Contrary to popular belief, people actually lived for a decently long time if they survived infancy. I'm fine with diseases and whatnot, I just think the random event diseases should be toned down a lot.

I have had alot of dun with this event, my current ruler age 84 (ironman) have had cancer 3 times and alaways healed by my court psychian learning 28, mythic, renowned psychican. Yea have lost few wife, so?i also tried to become immortal and got severly injured trait and lived. Beware keep good releations with your healer or you get killed.

 

[Kumicho]

I think main problem is that, people wont adjust with new mechanics, they still try to play old way and they lose. I olways save money for hospital, and always hire 20+ learning court psycican and also help him get renowed psycican trait. And i newer yet died in illness or injury played 220 years on first game and 170 years on other one.

So problem are players who just cant adjust

But here's the thing, my first game (Toulouse, 1066) lasted 6 characters. 3 had the Lunatic trait, 2 had The Great Pox, 3 had Incapable... And yes, that was going immediately to level 3 Hospitals (and every single building in the hospital), and going to level IV hospital once my tech caught up. Here were my rulers:

Count Raimond of Melgueil - Died Age 54, had: Great Pox, Lunatic, Severely Injured
Duke Peire of Toulouse - Died Age 49, had: Incapable
Duke Raimond IV of Toulouse - Died age 26, of the Plague
Duke Ermengau - Died age 67, had Great Pox, Lunatic
Duke Guigues - Died 61, Incapable (for like 6 years!!!!)
Queen Ermessentz of Aragon - Lunatic, Incapable at 53

Game ended as when Queen Ermessentz slipped into incapable I wasn't able to change the inheritance rules (son was dead, and granddaughters were traditionally married by my idiot son).

So I started a second game as 867 Nantes trying to just get a rich and successful realm going. He died after 5 years from Stress, Cancer and Infirm.

So I started a third game as 867 Nantes. He got Infirm one year later.

Yes, Renowned Physicians helps (a LOT!), but that doesn't do much for your courtiers dying left and right, and certainly doesn't help much when you're just starting out and haven't even had a chance to build hospitals yet.

Overall, I like the epidemics (and would even go for more of these), and I LOVED the Black Death, but the sheer number of times that people got cancer, rabies, infirm, etc are a bit much. At least in my opinion...

 

[TL_]

Rather than necessarily make diseases less dangerous, I think I'd rather them tweak Hospital costs.

It doesn't bother me that there is a challenge to be surmounted. It bothers me that in most cases, there's very little to do about it. Only the very largest realms can afford to upgrade a hospital, and for a more minor ruler, just putting in the basic 100 investment for a hospital can be daunting. Tribal and nomad, of course, do with no protection at all.

 

[NwahNerevar]

I would rather have a historical accurate game that is as hard as dark souls then a balanced game that is as easy as pokemon.

Reapers due is a step in the right direction. Casuals need to stop ruining my fun.

muh casuals

 

[shiro the bushi]

muh casuals

clearly they need their physician to rub some Git Gud on their chest

 

[CyaN]

The game is much, much, much better than it was, now with a higher death rate. It changes everything and it's all better now. This is what CK2 was supposed to be, but had failed to be so far, because the player was too comfortable and too powerful, and therefore the game was just a mindless conquer-fest where you always succeeded automatically in everything you did (unless you were still learning how to play).

 

[Arona]

there is still RNG factor and hospitals mostly defend against diseases, high learning court Physicians can help gaianst different illnesses. ANd yes your corut and even family can die off iff they dont have good releations with healer