Realm effects from buildings only work in ruler's demesne

Realm effects from buildings only work in ruler's demesne

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Myrten

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Can you verify that not holding a barony that has the special building will let you benefit from it? It doesn't work for city and temple holdings, so I wouldn't expect it to work for barony holding either. I haven't bothered to get a special building yet, so haven't seen the mechanics personally. If you have to own the barony, then it means one less county because both count toward your domain cap.
If you own the county you always own it's primary holding and that is where 95% of special buildings are.
 

Riamus

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If you own the county you always own it's primary holding and that is where 95% of special buildings are.
Was editing the post as you replied. See the post again to see the edit. But in short, I was asking if any were in secondary baronies or not. I thought they would be when I first posted, but then reconsidered and edited the post to check.
 

Myrten

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Was editing the post as you replied. See the post again to see the edit. But in short, I was asking if any were in secondary baronies or not. I thought they would be when I first posted, but then reconsidered and edited the post to check.
There is very small number of special buildings which are in secondary temple holdings like Vaticano in Rome, but their numer is extremely small, around 90% of special buildings are in primary castle holdings.
 

Riamus

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In that case, I withdraw my comment about not being able to have as many counties. :)
 

Johrdan360

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to solve this, simple give the realm bonus to the county title holder...problem solved...
I don't get it why they don't already make this a thing...so simple
 

Jeffry

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Either the wording in the tooltips is incorrect and "realm" should really just be "domain" or the special buildings are bugged.

I hope it's the latter, but not sure if we can use "it worked like that in CK2" in this case (or any other case for that matter). There sadly are too many things that worked one way in CK2 and another way in CK3 and no idea if it's because of different vision for the game or just many many oversights. Both equally possible in my eyes.

It's weird to me that the effects are not applied at least to the top realm holder too, because if the players want to get those benefits, they will, they will get at least some of those counties, creating messy demesne in the process, for which the penalties are barely even a thing. You can either easily hold at least 3 duchies (and get another duchy building in the process), or just not create the titles or just accepting the tiny penalty when you hold something a vassal of yours considers his de jure land.

Having those bonuses apply to both the holder and to his top liege would make more sense and it wouldn't incentivise players to just hold separate counties personally all over the continent in super ahistorical manner. As a positive side effect it would make some AI countries tiny bit stronger.
 
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badpotato!

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Either the wording in the tooltips is incorrect and "realm" should really just be "domain" or the special buildings are bugged.

I hope it's the latter, but not sure if we can use "it worked like that in CK2" in this case (or any other case for that matter). There sadly are too many things that worked one way in CK2 and another way in CK3 and no idea if it's because of different vision for the game or just many many oversights. Both equally possible in my eyes.
I hope so too, since it's pretty disappointing to get cool unique building in your realm only to realize it's inside a city or bishopric which means it will be eternally useless to you.
 
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aono

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I believe the reason of this is that special buildings use the same distinction between realm and domain as all other building does. Imagine every county in HRE with bonuses to MAA giving full bonus to top realm.
(or find corresponding screenshots from NK modes)
 

badpotato!

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EDIT: Actually, can you verify that any special buildings that are in barony holdings are only in the primary holding that you get automatically by holding the county or that none are in barony holdings at all? If that's the case, then yes, you're right. If special buildings can be in a secondary barony, then it would decrease the number of counties you can hold. I haven't looked into the special buildings to see where they are, so maybe the issue I mentioned isn't accurate.
Bishopric of Canterbury- useless( to feudal ruler) Catholic holy site for starters, there is another one in bishopric above county of Jerusalem. Hungarian, Sardinian and Thessalonika mines are all in secondary baronies,with Sardinian and Chaldiki ones being located in city holdings i belive. I'm sure there's more.
 

Jeffry

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I hope so too, since it's pretty disappointing to get cool unique building in your realm only to realize it's inside a city or bishopric which means it will be eternally useless to you.
Oh yeah, and that's another thing I forgot to include into why I think it makes less sense to have it like that and why I hope it's an oversight.

I believe the reason of this is that special buildings use the same distinction between realm and domain as all other building does. Imagine every county in HRE with bonuses to MAA giving full bonus to top realm.
(or find corresponding screenshots from NK modes)
Well for the normal buildings or duchy buildings it makes sense to only give bonuses to the holding holders in question, both balance and logic-wise. But the same can hardly be said about wonders.
 
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aono

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Well for the normal buildings or duchy buildings it makes sense to only give bonuses to the holding holders in question, it's their buildings, they built them. It makes sense both balance and logic-wise. But the same can hardly be said about wonders.
Not nessessary, by the way. I could built them in my vassal's provinces. Also, it's usually not you who built wonders, right?
 

Tuo

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There is a very rampant misunderstanding regarding realm and domain apparent on this forum, which probably indicates the game could go a little further on explaining how it works.

What you have to understand is that the source and effect are two different things. The source must be in your domain, for the direct effect to affect your realm. This is consistent with how all the building effects work. You do not gain the direct benefits of any building you aren't the holder of, and that includes realm bonuses. Realm bonuses affect things that are explicitly not tied to or limited to your domain, such as army upkeep (includes men-at-arms and vassal levies), renown gain, ruler skills, or number of knights.

To put it simply, the facts are two : realm bonus is an effect that applies to things that are not tied to land you hold or limited to such, and you must own the bonus to get the direct benefit. These two facts do not contradict each other.
 
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Jeffry

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Not nessessary, by the way. I could built them in my vassal's provinces. Also, it's usually not you who built wonders, right?
Exactly, but they're special buildings of world-wide renown within your realm. They're on a completely different level from your standard war camps or tax offices. If for example people even knew about those buildings, let's say Pyramids, they would maybe know in what realm they are and who is the ruler, they for sure wouldn't know nor care who is the count of the county of Gizeh.

The thing is you can't own separate buildings as was historically the case, monarchs owned them all over their realm. That would be a mess tho. Thus realm bonuses on special buildings (the crown would otherwise hold or administer directly) should indeed be provided to the top realm holder no matter who holds those buildings for the them in the meantime.

I wonder how easily modable this would be. Didn't find anything on the workshop.
 
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There is a very rampant misunderstanding regarding realm and domain apparent on this forum, which probably indicates the game could go a little further on explaining how it works.

What you have to understand is that the source and effect are two different things. The source must be in your domain, for the direct effect to affect your realm. This is consistent with how all the building effects work. You do not gain the direct benefits of any building you aren't the holder of, and that includes realm bonuses. Realm bonuses affect things that are explicitly not tied to or limited to your domain, such as army upkeep (includes men-at-arms and vassal levies), renown gain, ruler skills, or number of knights.

To put it simply, the facts are two : realm bonus is an effect that applies to things that are not tied to land you hold or limited to such, and you must own the bonus to get the direct benefit. These two facts do not contradict each other.
To those who disagree to this without a comment - I will not name you, but come forth if you wish and give me one example of a realm bonus that applies strictly to your domain, I'll wait.
 
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yerm

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Can you verify that not holding a barony that has the special building will let you benefit from it? It doesn't work for city and temple holdings, so I wouldn't expect it to work for barony holding either. I haven't bothered to get a special building yet, so haven't seen the mechanics personally. If you have to own the barony, then it means one less county because both count toward your domain cap.

EDIT: Actually, can you verify that any special buildings that are in barony holdings are only in the primary holding that you get automatically by holding the county or that none are in barony holdings at all? If that's the case, then yes, you're right. If special buildings can be in a secondary barony, then it would decrease the number of counties you can hold. I haven't looked into the special buildings to see where they are, so maybe the issue I mentioned isn't accurate.
For you (and I'm sure countless others who didn't reply) looking to figure this out... just start a Fatamid 1066 game. You start holding a wonder, with a vassal holding a wonder, and with another vassal whose mayor owns a wonder. Very easy to see and to test if you wanted via giving away and/or revoking.
 

YuriiH

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Is this fixed or still the case?
Still the case. You don't get most of the tasty bonuses from unique or duchy buildings unless you hold them directly (and the respective duchy title for the latter).
 
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