Realm Disruption

[Riddermark]

I say these events are driving me mad And yes specifically the one that suffers from complete logical explanation - vassal has declared independence $hit that cant be prevented, or foreseen because it HAS NO DAMN LOGIC in it!

I have a huge realm (France+Germany+Russia). I kept it perfectly fine while I was using the Duchy tag. This event that i spoke of above fired so very rarely - actually i dont remember it firing at all. But once i got all the kingdom titles i could all hell broke lose. And no I dont want to hear ridiculous explanations - because this isnt sane.

I understand a vassal that breaks beacuse of low loyalty, because of war opportunity or because I dont own the greater title of which realm he is. But when none of these factors are present everything should be running smooth and quiet. Its not even the prestige or piety. What isnt 1,000,000 prestige enough ? or 6k piety ?

I can agree that would work for dukes/counts but only i dont own the greater King or Duke title from which they are part of.

Wont it be a much better solution to add to the NOT factors a line that if your liege doesnt hold the greater title you shouldnt go independent ? (ex. Duke of Anjou shouldn't declared independece cuz I own King of France title).

It still wont be a solution for Britanny for example, but It will much better improve the situation - while it wont hurt gameplay and the holy land vassals breaking loose.

 

[Ciçatrix]

That would be a solution, but then again, people would just grab the king of jerusalem title, and so on, so they would be permanently immune from that event.

 

[Riddermark]

well at least then owning the title should drastically lower the chance of random independence

 

[Ciçatrix]

Yes, but could the coding be done? Becuase it is a random event, and I am not sure if you can have a modifier called something like "liege has title rightful liege"?

 

[Riddermark]

if i knew i would've done it myself I only hope it is possible

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I agree with Riddermark, because at the moment event doesn't really make sense. It would make sense if you could do something to prevent it, but now even if I have good king and reasonable sized empire it fires too often and too close to my capital. It doesn't make sense that with out any reason my vassal declares independence, even if his loyalty is +100.

 

[unmerged(29883)]

I think most people agree that the realm disruption events are a little on the arbitrary side.

Problem with having them based on, say, prestige or loyalty is that both of those are currently fairly easy to manage. If you have an inherant bonus for holding the natural Kingdom title then it'll be even easier to crush the disruption events. Without delving into vast historical detail, holding the 'natural' Kingdom title of an area with fierce national independence (Brittany, Scotland, etc.) did virtually nothing to stem the likelihood of rebellion. Cultural and/or religious differences were, and should, have a much more dramatic influence. As should the method of succession - conquest should make for a much, MUCH harder ride than legitimate inheritance.

Unfortunately, I don't think CK is capable of tracking things to that degree. Of course, what it *really* needs is EU2's revolt risk percentage. In the meantime, to make it mildly less arbitrary, my personal solution would be to tie it to loyalty, so that it never triggers for vassals with 100% loyalty, but has a lower mtth the less loyal a vassal is. You could then dampen that by adding a small mtth increase for a liege's prestige (I believe that can be checked, but I'm not certain...) if its +1000 prestige, perhaps another small one for +10000 and a more notable one for +50000, so if you really are a King Arthur type then you'll generally have a bit more grace to sort out your vassals' loyalty before they rebel on you.

Ideally, you'd then compare the culture and religion of the vassal to the culture and religion of the liege and significantly drop the MTTH if either were different. You'd then want to modify that if the liege's spouse was of the correct culture or religion (a very historical way of appeasing cultural differences) You'd probably also want to say that if the vassal is part of the lands belonging to the liege's primary title then the MTTH will jump up or, conversely, if it isn't then the MTTH would fall.

Then, to couple up with this new approach, you'd toss in a whole new set of events which would test the liege - vassal relationship, so that you could no longer guarantee 50-year-long periods of 100% loyalty from all vassals, and you'd need to keep an eye on new successors to positions. That way, the emphasis on avoiding realm disruption would be based on vassal management, with high diplomacy, high prestige, low BB kings with a small realm having a much easier ride than their opposites. It would also give the HRE and Byz a nice kick in the teeth.

However, not all of that is possible to do. Sadly. Its something for the CK2 wishlist, though.

 

[MichOrion]

I agree the events are way too arbitrary.

When I was the king of many places I couldn't hold on to all my vassals.

I know that this is to prevent large player kingdoms but the system doesn't work very well now.

It's almost as if the vassal's loyalty has no bearing on if they will declare independence.

 

[SecondReich]

Yeah, I was against these events from the beginning, but of course as always, the "Whoa, anything thats more difficult is great, and if you don't like it because it is pointless and arbritary, then you just want an easy WC game, and therefore suck" faction won out.

 

[joak]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you avoid them with a high diplo (or was it stewardship?) value? I've never had any major problems with them, except when I've mismanaged the succession, and end up with an idiot on the throne.

Not that they couldn't be improved, but especially with the re-pledging if you own the king title, it doesn't seem quite so disastrous as people are describing.

 

[SecondReich]

In any event, I believe these events will be both fixed and scaled back for the 1.05 patch. Paradox tends to fix their mistakes and listen to player's opinions, so I am not so worried.

 

[MichOrion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you avoid them with a high diplo (or was it stewardship?) value? I've never had any major problems with them, except when I've mismanaged the succession, and end up with an idiot on the throne.

Not that they couldn't be improved, but especially with the re-pledging if you own the king title, it doesn't seem quite so disastrous as people are describing.

I only run into trouble when I have lots of stuff. This makes a more historically game as empires don't get too big, but CK's kinda boring if you are not fighting all the time.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

I changed all this realm disruption events into "Your Vassal doesn't like you" you lose 50% of loyalty, if you have a bad king this will also make trouble, if not, you won't loose a vassal through an stupid event.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

I changed all this realm disruption events into "Your Vassaldoesn't like you" you lose 50% of loyalty, if you have a bad king this will also make trouble, if not, you won't loose a vassal through an stupid event.

What a great idea, instead letting vassal go independent without means to prevent it, this at least gives opportunity to do something to prevent independence. But if bad king it will lead to independence of vassals. Maybe event should named something like: "Your vassal thinks that your government is weak and has taken more liberties" or something.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

What a great idea, instead letting vassal go independent without means to prevent it, this at least gives opportunity to do something to prevent independence. But if bad king it will lead to independence of vassals. Maybe event should named something like: "Your vassal thinks that your government is weak and has taken more liberties" or something.

Your name is better. I made mine after 20 of these events in one year while I was very annoyed by it.
Edit: And you can also prevent it when you have a bad king, but only with few vassals and much money. And only for a short time.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

Could you tell me what the name of the events are.

 

[SecondReich]

I changed all this realm disruption events into "Your Vassal doesn't like you" you lose 50% of loyalty, if you have a bad king this will also make trouble, if not, you won't loose a vassal through an stupid event.

That really seems like a good way to go.

I think also that the "Your Province is too far from your capitol" events are slightly ridiculous. Its like someone dropped an atom bomb on your province.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

That really seems like a good way to go.

I think also that the "Your Province is too far from your capitol" events are slightly ridiculous. Its like someone dropped an atom bomb on your province.

There is a bug in that event, something to do with the area codes.

The events itself are good and logical in my opinion. f.e. you shouldn't be able to have a demesne which exists of Cordoba, Byzantion, Alexandria, Venice and Essex (capitol) and rule it without such problems.

As it is now it can fire also fire if you hold Dauphine Viennios (capitol), Provence and Viennes as your demesne.

 

[SecondReich]

There is a bug in that event, something to do with the area codes.

The events itself are good and logical in my opinion. f.e. you shouldn't be able to have a demesne which exists of Cordoba, Byzantion, Alexandria, Venice and Essex (capitol) and rule it without such problems.

As it is now it can fire also fire if you hold Dauphine Viennios (capitol), Provence and Viennes as your demesne.

I am not saying it doesn't make some sense to have such events. They are just TOO extreme in their effects. The better way to model it would have been to have provinces decrease your demesne effiency the farther away they were.

Now, if your capitol is more than 3 provinces from some of your demesne sodomy, bestiality, murder and vice just automatically run rampant. Seems a bit silly.

I just don't like how deterministic these events are making the game feel.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

Is this the event you mean. It's quite long.

# Distant vassals break free, general event

etc.

The Event is much too long to Quote. :rofl:
If yes you only have to search for independence (I think if not search for anything that means them to get indepentent) and change it into: effect = { type = loyalty value = -0.5 }, this makes them loose 50% loyalty instead of getting independent. But I didn't find out how to change the ingame message. I only called it in mind.