Realistically is this justifiable

[Plantagent]

So, let's see... in answer to a question about Lithuania, in 1444, it would cost 3420 to integrate. Ottos 2930, Poland 1720....

Ming would cost 11,090 dip. lols.

I think I used to be able to integrate the entirety of the HRE for 3600, with INF+ADM. Marches, definitely.

So here's a question/suggestion: is it possible to claim provinces adjacent to vassal provinces? Even better, is it possible to tell your vassal to do so?

You're probably paying more DIP to integrate your vassal than previously, but you're also paying no DIP for all the marketplaces and docks you're going to build for the entire campaign.

This is actually also a huge point. I ended up buying manufacturies all over the place because I had too many MPs... in a successful Ironman WC run. Seriously.

Bet you can still one-tag with the Ottos. France is actually not hugely nerfed for the human - that extra -15 dipannex now really, really matters. Probably one-tag with them. Definitely with Castile and Poland. Ryukyu probably can't one-tag, but one-tagging with Ryukyu is completely ridiculous anyway.

Annexing colonizer vassals is going to be more of a bitch, though.

 

[DicRoNero]

The cost per development is comparable to just annexing right away, and it's much cheaper than developing land yourself.

That is good only if your end goal is gaining development for the sake of development. If you do map-painting, then all I, for one, care about is the percentage of world's development I directly control, with the exact number being totally irrelevant. It's better to have 500 out of 1000 than 800 out of 2000.

Why people keep missing such a simple fact?

 

[Kapitalisti]

That must hurt but as people have said, that's one HUGE area to integrate. So buckle up, make sure your bird mana generation is ramped up and go for it.

 

[apg]

lol its half of france! what do you expect!

 

[Mattzey]

Imagine integrating the same land but in 50 years? The cost will just keep going up too as they develop the land so god knows how expensive it can get. In developed provinces I'd prefer an option to completely demolish development in exchange for cheaper coring. but of course I'm on about annexing land outright from conquest

 

[Lee Saxon]

Again, yes, the example in the OP is a large area, but this problem affects vassalizations/annexations of all size. I already mentioned that Milan with Mantua and Brescia integrated and Corsica vassalized cannot vassalize little Pisa, I can now add that neither forcing Venice to release Dalmatia as Croatia nor Friuli as Aquialia results in an OPM Milan is able to vassalize (though this is also partially due to both inexplicably starting as Kingdom-rank which is supposed to require 300 development)

 

[Mattzey]

lol its half of france! what do you expect!

As many people have said 'BUT' on the previous patch i could annex it for what 600? I wasn't expecting the cost to more than double.

 

[DicRoNero]

Imagine integrating the same land but in 50 years? The cost will just keep going up too as they develop the land so god knows how expensive it can get. In developed provinces I'd prefer an option to completely demolish development in exchange for cheaper coring. but of course I'm on about annexing land outright from conquest

Now also toss in some modifiers like Czech Nationalism and Diplomatic Defense Act. That gonna be simply insane. Even the best integration bonuses won't offset that.

 

[Plantagent]

....didn't they say they nerfed the core cost increase ideas/policy? So no more 900+adm provinces.

 

[apg]

As many people have said 'BUT' on the previous patch i could annex it for what 600? I wasn't expecting the cost to more than double.

ok i understand but from my perspective im glad its expensive as i like a challenge.

 

[Incompetent]

That is good only if your end goal is gaining development for the sake of development. If you do map-painting, then all I, for one, care about is the percentage of world's development I directly control, with the exact number being totally irrelevant. It's better to have 500 out of 1000 than 800 out of 2000.

Why people keep missing such a simple fact?

If your goal is one-tag map-painting and destroying everyone else, then focus on conquering everyone ASAP and don't get too invested in vassals. WC got harder than it used to be, but is that such a bad thing?

Small states can make themselves harder to annex by developing their land, just as they make themselves harder to annex by taking Aristocratic ideas or plonking colonies everywhere. It's a legitimate survival tactic.

 

[Naresh]

Costs may be a little high in my opinion, but then they were a little low in previous versions, I'd be happy to see a 10 or 15% reduction in current costs.
I'd be happy with integrations being cheaper, but taking longer too.

 

[Baron Novgov]

It seems to me that Paradox wants people to start using Idea groups to harmonize with your play style. Influence for example would drastically reduce your annex cost because its reduction is based on a flat percentage regardless of size and not to mention the core creation cost reduction. Basically, this game just got real and we need to adopt new tactics.

 

[zdlugasz]

You're probably paying more DIP to integrate your vassal than previously, but you're also paying no DIP for all the marketplaces and docks you're going to build for the entire campaign.

Not probably, for sure. If I did not make mistake, previously it was 49 tax, the difference between 1380 and 490 is 890. There is no enough place in England and Aquitanne together to build 89 marketplaces! (And I personally build docks in selected provinces only )

 

[Searry]

Diploannexing was way too easy before. This at least gives it a larger penalty(with the diprep).

 

[Tjolme]

Not probably, for sure. If I did not make mistake, previously it was 49 tax, the difference between 1380 and 490 is 890. There is no enough place in England and Aquitanne together to build 89 marketplaces! (And I personally build docks in selected provinces only )

Under the new system you are also paying for the production and manpower of the provinces you are integrating, something which was 'free' previously when only the base tax was used in the calculation. As Wiz mentioned in his post you have a vassal with 138 development (tax+production+manpower), compared to only paying for the 49 tax previously. Seems reasonable you have to pay for all the extra resources of that country rather than a third of them.

 

[lolciokuba]

I actually prefer it that way, annexing vassals was waay too easy in previous versions,I find it a lot more realistic.

 

[bizkit]

In my current game as Ottos, 3 province Wallachia requires 650 points to annex. I think it's best to live with this instead of complaining. Integrating vassals was hell of a job back in the middle age.

 

[Metagel]

I fail to see how bringing in real life incidents is going to impact at all on a game in which monarch points are a thing. Do you have any historical situations where countries use magical points to annex land, do you have any evidence that the ottomans didn't go 100 percent overextension when annexing Mamluks in 15 years? That's why you shouldn't bring in real life situations into a simulator game, its not historical simulator. At the end of the day the main point of the game is fun. Having 1 diplomat for 23 years is not my idea of fun.

This echoes my sentiment exactly. The changes may be "Balanced", but from a fun aspect, most of the changes in common sense are very tedious and unfun for me. Losing the embassy diplomat and general blobbing being extremely expensive is blanket nerfing my favorite style of play. Waiting for monarch points does not a fun game make, and I don't have any interest in playing tall nations. Common sense results in a game where if you're playing a big blob, you have prolonged periods of just doing absolutely nothing. This is not fun.

 

[Lapoleon]

In a normal pre 1.12 game I generally had at least 4 admin buildings in each rich province and in most cases a few diplo buildings and at least a couple of fort levels. Assuming you'd build around 10 buildings per rich province that's 100 MP per province that you now don't have to pay. That's 900 MP that you save by not paying these costs for buildings.