Realism

[unmerged(200)]

Since februari I have been looking at this site regularly. Everything looks absolutely great in comparison to other games made so far. The depth of this game is enough for me to definitely buy this game in any way possible. There are however some aspects that can be improved or added. Here they are.

1. When looking at the map with the different province names there are some that are not very accurate or misplaced. For exapmle Holland is made up of four provinces The Hague, Holland, Friesen and Zeeland. Holland should be Utrecht, The Hague should be Holland, Zeeland should be Brabant and were is Limburg (this province is so large and is connected with luxembourg)?
2. Another point is that some provinces have borders with others which are so small that one wonders if large armies can cross it or it is not clear there is a border between the two or not.
3. Some borders are straight lines especially outside europe which do not look very nice and realistic.
4. The provinces of Helvetia and Tyrol seem to be too large in comparison to the ones that surround it.

To add some realism I want to make some other points.
1. Spoils of war. When conquering a province and/or city the conqueror sometimes looted or raided it to pay the soldiers or to get some extra cash. Is this already possible in EU? This would show us some nice short term actions during the game. For example a rich province has been left with a small garrison. This would be an opportunity for a raid to get some quick cash (or loot, plunder and raze it(downgrade a colony/city etc).
2. Spoils of war. What about captives (POW's)and/or making slaves to add to your own province? Because population growth is important to build a large amry (and get taxes) and when low makes it less attractive to attack the 'empty' province.
3. What about piracy? Any comment on that? Is it already implemented?

Any replies will be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Geronimo

 

[unmerged(40)]

Province names: well, some of the more knowledgable beta testers have been scouring the province names, so look for some changes from the screen shots to the final release. On the other hand, remember that a lot of historical borders changed as time went by.

Small borders: not relevant to gameplay, though a given 'adjacency' may or may not be historically accurate. Do you have some specific examples that you are concerned about?

Borders outside Europe: how would you define them? For game purposes, some fairly arbitrary divisions had to be made. You won't even notice the relatively few straight lines once you get going. The map does a really good job of giving the 'feel' of the time, in my opinion.

Helvetia/Tyrol: hmm, can't really comment, except to note that Helvetia looks just like my map of Switzerland, and looks about the right size. I would guess that the designers had to decide whether to split it in two or have one slightly oversized province, and went with the one.

Spoils of war: sort of addressed in the peace settlements, you can ask for or pay tribute to make peace.

Captives: not part of the picture, except that you sometimes pick up extra troops when you completely annex an opponent.

Piracy: This is indeed part of the game - pirates show up occasionally in high economic value areas (at sea, of course!).

Scott

 

[unmerged(200)]

Small borders: I meant the ones that are difficult to see if they can be crossed (e.g. Cologne - Holland).

Piracy: 1. Are these events or can you control it yourself? 2. Is it implemented within the diplomacy too and can you do something against it? Let say if you pay me 100 I'll stop hassling your trade routes etc.

Geronimo.
P.s. Thanks for the reply Scott.

 

[unmerged(40)]

Small borders: I'll take a look this afternoon, see which ones might not be clear.

Piracy: Pirates are not controlled by players or tied to diplomacy - they are essentially rebellions at sea. A random event (fairly frequent as randoms go) creates a small fleet in sea zones close to high economic value areas outside of Europe (eg Indian Ocean, Carribean, SE Asia, etc). They can blockade trade, and of course attack fleets passing through their sea zone. They can move around, and can sometimes accumulate quite a few ships, unless someone goes after them. The computer player will go after ones that affect their trade, you need to go after others yourself...

Scott

 

[unmerged(200)]

Thanks these piracy events are great.

Are there any other events that have not been spoken of on the forums (non-beta) and are quite nasty or annoying?
I know only these:

1. Revolts or rebellions.
2. Piracy (for 18 hours already).
3. Change of kings.
4. Change of commanders.
5. Date triggered events (historical etc.)
6. Indepence declarations.
7. Drought, bad harvests which lead to starvation.
8. Floods (?).
9. Earthquakes (?).
10. Seasons (?).

Geronimo.

 

[unmerged(40)]

Well, I won't claim to have named all of them but:
1) Several mechanisms for small $$ donations (sudden demand for commodities, gifts, etc)
2) Several mechanisms for infrastructure improvements/losses (earthquakes, disasters, 'local' investment in fortification or industry).
3) Desertion or other forms of manpower loss
4) Dynastic inheritance (you get another country you have a royal marriage with - EXTREMELY RARE!)
5) Unexpected prosperity increases tax revenues
6) Vizer appointed (improved monarch values)
7) Random investments in technology
8) Random loss of investments in technology
9) Sudden death of monarch
10) Stability improvement/loss
many more...

Ya know, the more I list, the more I remember. There are a _lot_ of random events possible, they are well balanced (good and bad), and they add a lot of flavor to the game. The dynastic inheritance is awesome but I have only seen it once in many many hours of testing.

Scott

 

[Doomdark]

Sudden death of monarch

Monarch death is random? How is that possible? I thought the dates of death were fixed to facilitate the succession of all the historical leaders...

/Doomie


[This message has been edited by Doomdark (edited 19-06-2000).]

 

[unmerged(40)]

Well, monarch lifespans are programmed in, yes, but there is a random event too, so a temporary regency is appointed with mediocre monarch values, until the next 'scheduled' monarch comes on board.

Scott

 

[unmerged(200)]

What about the military commanders (and monarchs)? Is there a limit on the reserve list for each country. I mean after some centuries there is no commander left to replace the dead ones. If this is done for each country? Then he database will be huge for this event only and a team of historians have to be included in the developing team to give them support and feedback on this matter (and for the naval commanders etc).

Then my next question will be what about the newly formed countries? They have to have a random set of commanders and monarchs. And if not how is this problem solved?

Geronimo.

 

[unmerged(40)]

Ah humm. I haven't dealt much on this end. In fact, many of the beta testers are EXTREMELY knowledgable about the history of this time period. If they aren't professional historians, they are at least high-level amateurs! I know that the lists of names and stats are very extensive, but I don't know the details. Perhaps Matthew or Greven or someone could address this?

Scott

 

[unmerged(28)]

Ok, first one has to separete Random Monarchs & Leaders from Historical Monarchs & Leaders.

The Historical ones are, from what I have seen correct. The random ones are based on Historical names used in these countries. Sometimes they will deviate from actual history, like that fact that you can get swedish random leaders with 'Noble names' from the 16th century in the year of 1792 when that noble family was exstinct, but one has to have in mind that you could actually aqcuire an unlimited number of random leaders in a game. it is not practically possible to create a system that strictly follows history. It isn't doable or at least not cost-efficient. There are more important concerns as playability for example.

There are at some cases Random monarchs. Say that Burgundy reappear as a nation in 1723. There are no Historical monarchs as the event is contrafactual. So there the developers have to invent new names. They of course has tried to make these random names sound tastefully.

/Greven

 

[unmerged(200)]

Sounds great, it gives a new edge to a historical development which would be different every time you play.

Is it possible to add your own characters to this historical or random list?
Making the question more interesting. Is there a backdoor to the files to change some of its contents to put together your own scenario perhaps? Probably not yet but maybe in future add-on's?

 

[unmerged(185)]

I like this idea, to be able to add names to the monarchs or general list.

 

[Greyshaft]

Originally posted by Geronimo on 06-20-2000 03:51 PM
Is it possible to add your own characters to this historical or random list?
Making the question more interesting. Is there a backdoor to the files to change some of its contents to put together your own scenario perhaps? Probably not yet but maybe in future add-on's?

The back door is already there since the game data is stored in text files and Excel spreadsheets. It took me about five minutes to figure out how to make Scotland a playable country. Anyone who has ever edited a Config.sys should be able to figure out the file layout and make the changes they want.

/Graham

 

[unmerged(200)]

This game is getting better and better al the time.

So to what extent can the game be changed? Or better yet what elements of this game cannot be changed?
To answer this it probrably would take too much time to figure it all out. So I don't expect any reply on this one.

To get back to the topic. If they need some help with naming the provinces one could look at maps of the PBM game Lords of the earth (1 etc.). It covers most of same periods in EU and have about the same sizes.

Geronimo.

 

[unmerged(200)]

To go directly to a site with maps of Lords of the earth game 01 click below. Maybe it could be of some use, I dunno know.
http://www.throneworld.com/lords/lote01/maps/maps.html

Geronimo.

 

[Endre Fodstad]

What about...

Privateers?
that is, player/computer-controlled pirates?

Their implementation was rotten in the BG, but they were an essential part of the 16th/17th century naval situation.

-Endre Fodstad