Realism of Soviet Atomic Bombs

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I just finished reading Systass' Soviet AAR and it had me thinking about the Soviets developing the first A-bomb.

The Soviets weren't able to develop a delivery system for the bomb on their own (they captured and reverse engineered two US B-29s). Their ability to recreate these 'high tech' planes at the time was a shock to the US and UK. It doesn't seem to me that a country that couldn't create a delivery system on their own would be able to build something as complicated as the atomic bomb.
At the time, Russian scientists simply didn't have the resources, creativity or technology to create an Atomic bomb and they had to steal information from the US to build the bombs they made in the late '40s.
In order for the US to be lucky enough to develop an atomic bomb they had German/Jewish refugee scientists, an UNLIMITED(!) budget for the program and technologies available which the Soviets didn't have at the time.

I realize this is a speculative game, but it made me wonder how realistic it is for the Russians to develop a bomb on their own. I dont mean to sound anti-Russian, it is simply the reality of where they were in the 1940s.

 

[unmerged(4953)]

And why were they that way in the 40's ? because the suffered an apoliptical war that slaughtered 10's of millions of their citizenry and demolished most of their large cities.
Sytass managed to avoid all of that and conquer Europe in 18 months. Thus the russians 1) wouldnt have suffered the same casualties 2) have infinitly more resources 3) have german scientists.

 

[unmerged(5402)]

So, by that reasoning any country that didn't lose a large portion of it's population in the war could have developed the bomb?

 

[unmerged(4953)]

The Soviet Union wasnt 'any country'.

 

[unmerged(11457)]

Yeah, dont forget Russia took all of Germany.

 

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Originally posted by Monty
So, by that reasoning any country that didn't lose a large portion of it's population in the war could have developed the bomb?

No country that took the losses that Russia suffered in WW2 (population, resources,territory) could have made an atomic bomb... U.S. included.

 

[Vynd]

I agree that in the real world, the USSR never could have developed an atomic bomb during the time frame this game covers. But I don't think it was so far out of the realm of possibility that it shouldn't be possible in this game.

I stopped following Systass's AAR awhile back, but I believe in that game he essentially conquered Europe. I don't find it that hard to believe that Europe unified under Soviet control could develop an atomic bomb. I mean, what would have stopped a Stalinist Europe from, say, diverting the entire German economy to atomic bomb R&D after they conquer them? Millions will starve? So what...

 

[blah.blah.blah]

Originally posted by Monty
I just finished reading Systass' Soviet AAR and it had me thinking about the Soviets developing the first A-bomb.

The Soviets weren't able to develop a delivery system for the bomb on their own (they captured and reverse engineered two US B-29s). Their ability to recreate these 'high tech' planes at the time was a shock to the US and UK. It doesn't seem to me that a country that couldn't create a delivery system on their own would be able to build something as complicated as the atomic bomb.
At the time, Russian scientists simply didn't have the resources, creativity or technology to create an Atomic bomb and they had to steal information from the US to build the bombs they made in the late '40s.
In order for the US to be lucky enough to develop an atomic bomb they had German/Jewish refugee scientists, an UNLIMITED(!) budget for the program and technologies available which the Soviets didn't have at the time.

I realize this is a speculative game, but it made me wonder how realistic it is for the Russians to develop a bomb on their own. I dont mean to sound anti-Russian, it is simply the reality of where they were in the 1940s.

It's probably safe to say that they would have been able to do it, but not within the time frame of the game (unless germany doesn't invade them at all, in which case it becomes quite possible indeed). They had many world class physicists and an industrial base that could have handled it in peacetime. Even the US govt knew quite well that the main problem for the soviet program wasn't technology, but rather the devastation caused by germany. As for delivery systems, they had several designs that would have worked reasonably well. The B-29 was copied because it was better by quite a bit, not because they lacked long-ranged bombers.

 

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I agree that the war took it's toll on the Soviet Union and did a lot to shape their future, no argument there. What I am trying to say, is that I think it takes a certain "magic forumla" to make a technological leap like the A-bomb, and it didn't exist in SU for whatever reasons.

 

[blah.blah.blah]

Originally posted by Monty
I agree that the war took it's toll on the Soviet Union and did a lot to shape their future, no argument there. What I am trying to say, is that I think it takes a certain "magic forumla" to make a technological leap like the A-bomb, and it didn't exist in SU for whatever reasons.

But that is the thing: it doesn't take a magic formula. It, like most scientific and egineering tasks, takes mostly hard work and lots of trial and error. Very few american and british experts felt that the atomic bomb was beyond soviet engineering. The only surprise was that they did it so quickly after being totally devastated.

 

[Faeelin]

But it tiook the soviets until 1949, and that was with help from American spies.

There are no such spies now, and thus the Soviets shouldn't be building the bomb until 46.

 

[Zagys]

Originally posted by Monty
I just finished reading Systass' Soviet AAR and it had me thinking about the Soviets developing the first A-bomb.

It wasn't an A-bomb, it was an H-bomb, that makes it even worse.

 

[Vynd]

Originally posted by Faeelin
But it tiook the soviets until 1949, and that was with help from American spies.

There are no such spies now, and thus the Soviets shouldn't be building the bomb until 46.

Again, this is assuming that the Soviet Union is hampered by the same factors that were true in real life. You might as well argue that Allies have to win every time.

 

[Jon Shafer]

Amazing that there's no mention of how prohibitively expensive building an A-Bomb is in HOI...

Unless something completely ahistorical occurs (i.e. USSR taking over Europe in a short period of time), then only America has a real chance of developing a nuke before the war is complete.

 

[Idiotboy]

Re: Re: Realism of Soviet Atomic Bombs

Originally posted by Zagys
It wasn't an A-bomb, it was an H-bomb, that makes it even worse.

Yeah, so? With the kind of resources he could use why is this so incredible? If you go for it early enough and has that kind of dough to pour into it I don´t really see the problem.

 

[Zagys]

Originally posted by Trip
Amazing that there's no mention of how prohibitively expensive building an A-Bomb is in HOI...

Unless something completely ahistorical occurs (i.e. USSR taking over Europe in a short period of time), then only America has a real chance of developing a nuke before the war is complete.

Are you a beta tester for HoI?

 

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Zagys
Are you a beta tester for HoI?

Nope, but that's what I've heard from two of them.

 

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Okay, so what's the advantage of letting Germany rip you a new one, and going through with the purges? There has to be some incentive for a human player to act historically... or at least a huge penalty for acting unhistorically.

 

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I saw that special on The History Channel that documented how the Russians were able to copy our aircraft design to obtain an atomic delivery system. I just finished a book that was nearly 1000 pages long that covered most aspects of WWII and the state of the world after it ended. I'm amazed that was never mentioned in the book.

I agree with most of the posts in this thread. The Russians obviously relied heavily on US tech, but if the tables were turned and our cities were under seige...I doubt we would have been able to dedicate such a large amount of resources to the development of the bomb.

I wonder how much differently Europe would look today if the Russians had been able to develop the bomb before the US. Does anyone have any information about the effects of using an atomic weapon in HOI? I can safely assume that the target would be completely destroyed, but are there any political consequences?

 

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Originally posted by Zagys
It wasn't an A-bomb, it was an H-bomb, that makes it even worse.

True