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Originally posted by Mikaelis
Greven wrote:
Sorry, but it is a huge dissapointment to me.I know that looks like no big deal having or not "real" equipment (T-34s, Panthers, Me-109s, etc) but i think that this kinda detail give life to the game and are not very hard to be simulated. I am one of the most fanatical defensors of the Paradox´s work, but in this case i´m really sad with the flaw. Tech Levels is, IMO, a thing from games of the beggining of the 90´s.
I can understand some of this - but its not like Germany ever had a panzer division comprised entirely of Tigers. And as the levels rise the graphics will change as Greven said. Besides, if you have a number of divisions only one icon will show.
Plus what happens if someone diverges from the historical tech path. What if Japan develops a four engined heavy bomber or a super heavy tank comparable to a JSIII. What are we going to call it and what will it look like. It may not be sensible (in the game) to develop the Tigers and King Tigers - think of the quality vs quantity debate in Eu2.
Pz General is a beer and pretzel game (one which I enjoy very much) but is not a strategic game and does not claim to be. HoI will be as much about politics and economies as when you can mount an 88mm AA gun in a tank and label it a Tiger
Well............I guess you guys are right, It wouldn't be fair to have heavy tanks for Germany and Russia and not for Japan and Brazil if the player wants to research them..........
At least the icons will change.....
At least the icons will change.....
I want my Panthers
Oh well, at least combat looks promising but some armored eyecandy would maake the game perfect
Oh well, at least combat looks promising but some armored eyecandy would maake the game perfect
Originally posted by Draxo
I want my Panthers
Oh well, at least combat looks promising but some armored eyecandy would maake the game perfect
Come on, just name your tank division "1st Panther"......
And the icons are going to change with the tech level, so you'll probably have a Panther tank like icon when its research level is reached...........
Originally posted by VultureGFF
I just love it when everybody agrees
We agreed because you weren't in this discussion.....
Originally posted by Draxo
I want my Panthers
Oh well, at least combat looks promising but some armored eyecandy would maake the game perfect
I will play this game with counters
/Greven
Ah counters, in reminds me of the good old days before there were computer war games.
Originally posted by Mikaelis
Greven wrote:
Sorry, but it is a huge dissapointment to me.
I agree with you here. I thought that someone said that they were going with something like a historical tech-tree and historical equipment/research based on the nationalities.
I hope that this is still the case.
I told a few friends who were on the fence about the game after hearing that the nations had some squirrelly amorphous “Tech” level (Blaaa-too much like those RTS games of the 1990s) , then changed their minds and decided to grab the game after I told them that Paradox went with historical equipment and tech research (way cool).
I hope that this is the case. As had been stated before, the time-frame that the game is set in is very short (not much room for crazy Tech-development from Mexico), the data is out there, and it has been done in much earlier games. It adds much to the historical flavor of the game, and how people identify with it.
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It has been stated elsewhere that there are over 700 technologies. They have to be used for something...
Originally posted by Derek Pullem
I can understand some of this - but its not like Germany ever had a panzer division comprised entirely of Tigers. And as the levels rise the graphics will change as Greven said. Besides, if you have a number of divisions only one icon will show.
Plus what happens if someone diverges from the historical tech path. What if Japan develops a four engined heavy bomber or a super heavy tank comparable to a JSIII. What are we going to call it and what will it look like. It may not be sensible (in the game) to develop the Tigers and King Tigers - think of the quality vs quantity debate in Eu2.
Pz General is a beer and pretzel game (one which I enjoy very much) but is not a strategic game and does not claim to be. HoI will be as much about politics and economies as when you can mount an 88mm AA gun in a tank and label it a Tiger
1.Of course Germany never had Division with nothing but Tigers, but if you look at some of the very good war games in the past, the Divisions did have the main equipment sorted out inside the division, and also tracked the numbers of t-34s etc… inside the divisions, and gave them various attack/def values and modifiers that were combined into the Combat resolution with the rest of the units.
I mean Shezzz..It was done in a DOS game, I would sure the heck hope they do it here.
2.As far as divergence from the Tech, this game only covers a span of 10 years, and much of the Tech development and equipment was well in place or on track prior to the war. Much of the equipment can trace its orgins directly back to the early 30s. A simple national Tech Tree with proto-type equipment and post war units/equipment, as well as additional variances to existing equipments, that the player could concentrate on, or alter. This could even be put into the modifiers alone for things like advanced radar and long ranged wire-guided torpedoes that give the specific unit or equipment an additional modifier in part of the combat resolution.
3. AS far as the scale, large operational games have included this detail which the player can choose to ignore (sometimes at his great disadvantage) or let the computer Ob or Industrial/Research commander worry about. As an advanced computer game, this type of chrome is often necessary for many gamer to be able to identify with the period or flavor of the game, and hence adds greatly to the enjoyment of the game
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This is a bit strange. Its a game about WWII. If one does not want to play in WWII, then another game might be better to play..
The Fact is that South America did not have the Industrial or Technological infastructure in place at all in 1939 to really make much of a strive towards any kind of effectual armament base in a short 10 years, to make any kind of a difference.
If Argentina produces aircraft carriers and heavy tanks by 1942 and then invades Australia with this new force, um….I think that is way ridiculous. I think that in EU and EUII, we have become accustomed to being able to do strange things, but those games cover well over 100 years of time.
In the end this is supposed to be a game about WWII.
They could be the different technologies within the nations, they could be the modifiers of built equipment, like snorkels, automatic weapons etc…They could be post war or proto-type units within that nations Tech Tree.
One could very easily eat up that 700 fairly quickly.
I want to see a game that maximises my flexabilty as a player. I do not want a game that forces me down the same historical path every time. So I don't want to play WWII, I want to play a gmae set in that era.
The game starts in 1936 so you have more opertunities for what if's. Some countires will struggle and LA countires should be on this list. At the same time some smart leadership means they could do better. Perhaps not conquering the world, but I think they could conquer their neighbours. With all that extra land and people maybe the Manhattan project might be out of reach but doing something more is not.
In the end I hope it is a game that I have the freedom to do something different.
Originally posted by Petrus
Amen brother King. Keep preaching the good word.
I try Brother Petrus, I try.
1. War in Russia (it's a windows version now
) and TOAOW both tracked equipment per tank. But they didn't have any identifying change when tigers or me262 appeared. It was all abstracted into the attack / defense factors and resource pool. I mean, did anyone really micromanage replacements in War in Russia. And if they did would they represent a significant fraction of the HoI potential purchasers2. You are still straight-jacketing players. Japan did not invest in tank technology because it did not need it in jungles or in China (no opposition). If they decided to fight the Russians then they would have to invest in tank technology, possibly at the expense of naval developments (no Yamato ?)
3. The games is still a while from release - tech development and mechanics framework is there but not finalised. Wait and see what ends up in the game.
You make a good point here and I generally agree with you. I hate it when for example, as a French Player, I am not allowed to alter my pre-war defense. As the French Commander, I do not want to slide into the low-countries; I want to keep the Bulk of my Army West of the Somme (spelling of this river I always forget.). If the Germans have the Bulk of their Force in Poland, then I want my French forces to make strong, local attacks across the Frontier. This I understand. As the UK, If I want to speed up research on the Cromwell, instead of the Crussier Mk1, than that should be my choice. If I play Argentina, and decide to work with the Germans by providing sub bases, and as a result, they supply my nation with some fairly modern arms and training so I can cause a ruckus in the lower Continent, than that’s cool too.
However, This is all in the Context of WWII. The types of things we are talking about as far as these minor nations being straightjacked, that’s just how it was in 1939, and in 1936. I mentioned 1939, because that is when the war started, and most nations saw the Blitz for the first time. I know that the game starts in 1936, but Trust me, Brazil, nor Argentina will build the Rhineland industrial base, with all of its technological, industrial, and economic nesscisites which make such a region possible, in a mere 3 years.
I want freedom in the game too, but I want it in the context of WWII; as this is a WWII game, not just a run of the mill empire building game.