Real flag of Russia

[Walter Hawkwood]

An interesting fact I've stumbled on while net-surfing: a research done on flag of Russia during pre-Peter's times. They found that the first all-Russian flag dates back to Peter's father, Alexis, and looks like this:

So the theory of Peter rearranging Netherlands' flag is growing paler, especially when we remember that Netherlands had not a red, but an orange stripe these days. More likely, Peter just changed THIS flag so that it doesn't include cross - symbolizing that state no longer depended on church.
The essay itself is in Russian, so I didn't post a link - but to be brief, this is stated there. Seemed interesting enough to me. Don't think it'll be useful for graphics-making, though.

 

[Leprechaun]

Hmmm

Looks like a french regimental flag during Louis XIV reign...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

This flag is quite an unknown fact even in Russia itself. The history of the country has been rewritten so many times, that several pages got wasted away almost completely. This flag is one of them. I bet Peter the Great wouldn't like his sucessors to know he threw away the symbol of christianity from the flag, or even the sucessors themselves were to hide his deed from public. Anyway, it is an officially listed (though only in FOREIGN documents) flag.

 

[Txini]

the Church continued been very important maybe he used the colous of the flag to amke one like netherlands

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Originally posted by Txini
the Church continued been very important maybe he used the colous of the flag to amke one like netherlands

With abolition of the Patriarchate? With state clerk presiding over Holy Synod? The Church has ceased to exist as a power. Peter was very fond of Netherlands, though - he might have wanted a "Netherlands style" flag.

But I tend to like this one better than the tricolor - it is somehow unlike any other state flag we find in Europe. It has its own personality.

 

[unmerged(8595)]

Originally posted by Walter Hawkwood
An interesting fact I've stumbled on while net-surfing: a research done on flag of Russia during pre-Peter's times. They found that the first all-Russian flag dates back to Peter's father, Alexis, and looks like this:

D.Ch.* Really before Peter I Russia had not state flag in europian mind. Only "State ZNAMIA" - flag with face of God or ikon... After Peter Russian flags were much different and only Alexander III make really state flag white-blue-red...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Re: Re: Real flag of Russia

Originally posted by Chernish


D.Ch.* Really before Peter I Russia had not state flag in europian mind. Only "State ZNAMIA" - flag with face of God or ikon... After Peter Russian flags were much different and only Alexander III make really state flag white-blue-red...

So I thought too. But check this out - you can read Russian, I suppose. http://www.sv-rus.ru/st/flag.html This MIGHT be some kind of heresy, you know, but when you deal with history, it is hard to decide what to believe.

 

[Styrbiorn]

So the theory of Peter rearranging Netherlands' flag is growing paler, especially when we remember that Netherlands had not a red, but an orange stripe these days.

Actually, during Peter's time the Dutch used the red-white-blue tricolour (ie they had abandoned the orange version).

 

[unmerged(9622)]

Re: Re: Re: Real flag of Russia

Originally posted by Walter Hawkwood


So I thought too. But check this out - you can read Russian, I suppose. http://www.sv-rus.ru/st/flag.html This MIGHT be some kind of heresy, you know, but when you deal with history, it is hard to decide what to believe.

Hmm, i checked the given link and here's what was written there:

 êíèãå "Êîðàáåëüíûå ôëàãè" Êàðëà Àëÿðäà, èçäàííîé â
In the book "Ships' flags" by Karl Alyard published in Amsterdam

Àìñòåðäàìå åùå â 1695 ãîäó, ýòîò ôëàã îïèñàí òàê: "ôëàã
in 1695, this flag was described as follows: 'Flag of Muscovy

Ìîñêîâñêèé, îïðåäåëåí ñèíèì êðåñòîì, ïåðâîé è ÷åòâåðòîé
defined by an azure cross, in 1st and 4th quarters white,

êâàðòèåð áåëîé, âòîðîé è òðåòèé êðàñíîé". Òàêèì îáðàçîì, â
in 2nd and 3rd red'. Thus, in 2003 Russian flag is going to

2003 ãîäó ðóññêîìó ôëàãó èñïîëíÿåòñÿ íå 300 ëåò, à 334 ãîäà.
celebrate not 300 years of its history but 334 years.

Ïðè ýòîì íóæíî îòìåòèòü, ÷òî íûíåøíèé Ðîññèéñêèé ôëàã ñ
But we should take into account that present-day Russian flag

ïàðàëëåëüíûì ðàñïîëîæåíèåì öâåòîâ - áåëûé, ñèíèé,
with parallel positioning of colours - white, azure, red (gules)

êðàñíûé - ïðîèçîøåë, áåç âñÿêîãî ñîìíåíèÿ, îò
came undoubtedly from that cross-patterned flag of czar

êðåñòîîáðàçíîãî ôëàãà öàðÿ Àëåêñåÿ Ìèõàéëîâè÷à. Ïåòð
Alexei Mikhailovich. Peter I rejected the cross on the state banner

Ïåðâûé îòêàçàëñÿ îò êðåñòà íà ãîñóäàðñòâåííîì ôëàãå,
having substituted it for 3 parallel stripes as it was adopted by enlighted Europe

çàìåíèâ åãî òðåìÿ ïàðàëëåëüíûìè ïîëîñàìè ïî îáðàçöó ïðîñâåùåííîé Åâðîïû.
[end of quotation]

Thus, maybe you are right, and there's no heresy -

Khimaira / [wiggles]Chimera

 

[unmerged(9622)]

Hmm, another portion of information to eliminate the last doubts...

Although it is mentioned in a lot of (flag)books, it is probably just a myth that the Russian tricolour is derived from the Dutch one during Tsar Peter’s (incognito) visit to the Netherlands in 1697. One of the worlds first flagbooks, compiled by Carel Allard (from Amsterdam) in 1695 [ala95], shows three Russian flags:

horizontal white-blue-red, over all (shifted to the hoist) a golden double headed eagle with a red shield (with St.George, without the dragon) on its chest and a golden crown over its heads. Caption: Czar of Moscovia. (See here.)
horizontal white-blue-red, over all a blue saltire. Ratio of the flag aprox. 1:3. Caption: Other flag of Czar of Moscovia. (See here.)
quarterly red and white, a blue cross over all. Caption: another Moscovian flag. (See here.)
Mark Sensen, 25 Nov 1998, quoting [sie96]

More correctly it should be said that the shape of the Dutch flag influenced the Russian one, while the colors were “traditional”. It is to remember that the Dutch ensign, created 1572, was the first marittime flag in the shape of three horizontal stripes, and since then, it got great popularity. We could say that white, blue and red flags were in used in Russia from about 1667, mainly in the quartered form with a blue cross, while from 1697, after the visit of Peter the Great to Netherlands, the triband design became the preferred one. (Sources: [zig94], [sto74] and [fow69].)
Mario Fabretto, 27 Nov 1998

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ru.html

Banner of Ivan the Terrible

Great banner of Ivan the Terrible

Banner of Alexei Mikhailovich 1666-1667

Banner of Peter I 1696

Khimaira / [wiggles] Chimera