Read me: Toxicity infraction changes

Status
Not open for further replies.

LeSingeAffame

Loyal ally to Durcorach the Black Drake
73 Badges
Sep 16, 2012
3.590
2.277
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
You can always phrase your posts differently. Communication is a two-way process, but this segment right here pretends that it's one-sided.
You can clearly guess when your post will be toxic. If you don't even make the effort of making it appear relevant, then why would you have an excuse ? The first temporary ban should be enough to make your rethink about your post(s), and why they were seen as toxic. And if you still don't understand, I'm pretty sure that TinyWiking or Castellon could explain what the toxic content was.
But if, despite all this, still manage to be toxic, while still not seeing why it's a problem, then it's not like if they could do anything for you.
(Not directed at you by the way - they're many "you" here, just using you as an example)
 
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:

.G illes

Private
22 Badges
Nov 19, 2016
15
18
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris
,,This is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause’’

I do not tend to post often, but I do like to actively read and enjoy discussions here at the forums. I do feel a strong urge to reply here.

First of all, I would like to make clear that it is in no way up to us whether we agree on these terms or the system over all. Obviously, this forum is hosted by paradox and they can pretty much do what they like. Still, Paradox has a tradition of ,being open for debate, - as they point out themselves - so I feel like we can still make a contribution without losing our heads - virtually.

First of all, I would like to take a closer look to the ,crime’ of toxity. It is defined as follows:

"In general any post that is overly negative, doesn't contribute to the forum or simply contains foul language and insults is toxic".

There are, in other words, three criteria for a post to be considerd toxic. The word 'or' makes it clear that one of the criteria is already enough to deem a post toxic, the criteria are in no way consecutive. I think we can conclude that this indeed is a very broad concept.

"Overly negative": here we already face a small problem; what is overly and who decides what overly is? Does that mean that more than half of the elements a post contains is negative, or does it mean that one element is enough as long as it 'dominates' the post? Negativity is defined as "the expression of criticism of or pessimism about something." If we combine those two, it appears that post can not express criticism or pessimism is such way that it is dominiting within the post?

"Doesn't contribute to the forum": in first instance, I had to think of spam or irrelevant remarks. Then again, what does a contribution to a forum contain? Are there specific goals that this forum wants to achieve (for example, customer feedback, sharing of experiences or ideas)? If so, does one need to contribute to one of these goals to make a contribution to the forum? Then I hope that sharing Stellaris Memes is one of the main goals of the forum, otherwise it would be possible that they do not actually contribute - which would be a shame. One could argue that complaining or criticism is actually a contribution to the forum. So solely contributing is not enough, one has to contribute in a non-overly negative manner.

"Foul language and insults": a lot of foul language is used online, but not always in a negative context. "A big ass fleet", for once, could be considered foul. Insults, on the other hand, are a clear concept but one could ask if the 'receiver' of the insults has any importance - it is about insults towards devs or anyone in that case? I have the impression that it's meant to be against devs, as the reasoning behinf it is as follows: "But we cannot and will not tolerate hate speech, personal attacks, or generalization/untruths about our Devs."

A second definition is also given:

"If your post doesn't contribute and instead serves as a way to stir up more negativity and rage from other users, it's toxic."

Here, the criterium of 'not contributing' is expanded upon. Here I have the impression that the criterium itself is redefined, and consists of two other consecutive criteria: not contributing and stirring up ánd negativity ánd rage. So, only stirring up negativity could be allowed - as long as it is not 'overly negative', since that criterium remains unchanged. It is not clear whether the criterium of 'not contributing' is actually replaced by this. Because even without stirring up negativity and rage, it is still considered toxic.

I therefore conclude - as long as things are not made clear - that one can still post non-overly negative posts, as long as it contributes something to the forum and does not include and foul language and insults.

For example: "I really love paradox and stellaris, but dev X's mother was an hamster and his father smelled like elderberries". Would this be considered toxic?

Well, the post is not overly negative - in fact, a lot of love has been expressed. Does this contribute to the forum? Well, if an opinion is a contribution - then it does. If Paradox wants to get community feedback (as the claim), then this is a valid statement. The post does include an insult, but no real foul language. So, the post would not be deemed toxic - even though I would probably be not very happy about it.


I think you should clear this up, the way you define the concept is not clear enough. Statements like 'don't talk the way you wouldn't want other people to talk to you' make little sense, we're all individuals with a different taste, a different thing to speak the mind and a different 'tolerance level'. I notice that only a limited amount of people can deem posts 'toxic', but avoid the 'randomness' in the labeling and punishment I would strongely recommend to make it more clear that people can still speak their mind, and that concept of toxity is more applicable to how you say it instead of what you say. That is namely my biggest concern: not be able to post critical posts which raise valid points in a respectful way.
 
  • 10
  • 8Like
  • 3
Reactions:

TinyWiking

Team Lead - Customer Support
Administrator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Demi Moderator
85 Badges
Jul 1, 2015
3.304
3.444
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 Sign-up
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Haemimont Games Staff
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Victoria 2 A House Divided Beta
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Magicka 2
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • IPO Investor
  • Eugen Systems Staff
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
You can always phrase your posts differently. Communication is a two-way process, but this segment right here pretends that it's one-sided.
You are absolutely right, communication goes both ways (much like a highway :p). It doesn't really change the fact that if you make a post, gets infracted for it, then explain yourself in the most eloquent way possible making you still broke the rules and spread toxicity. The damage is already done.

When I was a community manager I used to tell our fans the following:
If you are in a bad mood, is really upset about something or is generally feeling "the rage", write your post but don't post it. Step away from the computer for 10 - 15 minutes, take a coffee, clear your mind, then go back. When you come back, read it, take it in, see if what you wrote is something you'd like someone to say to your face. Chances are that you will re-evaluate your text and make it have just as much impact, only in a more constructive way.

I'll be locking this thread as it was meant more as an announcement than a discussion post, Jamor created a thread for that here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...inder-about-new-forum-toxicity-rules.1065296/
 
  • 5
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

AndrewT

The Full Monty Python
Paradox Support Rep
Super Moderator
Moderator
116 Badges
Jun 29, 2001
78.198
3.309
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • Gettysburg
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Impire
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Legio
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Pirates of Black Cove
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Ancient Space
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
Update for visibility.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.