Read me: Toxicity infraction changes

[Castellon]

We've implemented a Pilot project on the forum in an attempt to reduce or eliminate the toxicity levels especially around dev diaries.

This post is announcing the new policy, so members are aware and given a chance to control their posting.

WHY:
Paradox has a culture of openness and free exchange with our fans that is almost unparalleled in the video game industry, and it's been a vital part of our success that we mean to maintain. We are proud that our community is so vibrant and active, and will not allow the sort of rampant bullying and abuse that plagues some other game communities to spill over to our forums.

To provide a better experience for our fans, Paradox encourages our Developers to participate on the forums as part of their job, which, in turn then makes the forums a De facto workplace. Our Devs have thick skins, but as an employer, Paradox has a responsibility to provide a healthy workplace free from harassment.

What does this mean:
99.9% of forum users will not be affected in any way, just continue to be the great contributing members and readers you are, posting and conversing in a mostly polite and friendly manner as normal.
However, a small number of members are creating an environment that the Devs do not want to participate in, which negatively impacts the experience of the 99.9% who want to interact more with them, not less.

Paradox can take, and in fact actively encourages, disagreement, constructive critique and lively debate and understands that sometimes you need to express disappointment in a change or a bug. But we cannot and will not tolerate hate speech, personal attacks, or generalization/untruths about our Devs.

We will start issuing a new type of infraction called Toxicity. It will result in an immediate short-term ban for the first offence and a permanent ban on a subsequent offence. Because of the seriousness of this type of infraction, only myself and TinyWiking will be issuing them for the time being.

It is our hope that thoughtful consideration before posting a comment about the developers will mean we will not have to issue any, but we will not allow a small number of members to ruin it for everyone.

What is toxicity?
In general any post that is overly negative, doesn't contribute to the forum or simply contains foul language and insults is toxic. If your post doesn't contribute and instead serves as a way to stir up more negativity and rage from other users, it's toxic. Keep this in mind:

• Look at your post history. If the majority of your posts are troll posts against other players or telling other players that the Paradox team doesn't care/doesn't listen/doesn't know what they are doing, that's not productive. Don't reply to posts to say no one will reply. If you aren't looking to help the player with a question please do not respond.
• Posts that contain threats, attacks, insults aimed at Paradox staff or zero-value trolls will be deleted. They may also result in an immediate and permanent revocation of posting privileges. These will not use a time consuming infraction system. A good guideline to use for tone is: If you wouldn’t want someone walking into your living room speaking the words you’re about to post; it’s best to find another way to say it.

In conclusion
We are doing this for the benefit of everyone. This forum is a place of pride for Paradox thanks to all of you, our beloved fans, and we want to make it a place everyone that has a love for our games can enjoy. Toxicity doesn't only affect staff, quite the contrary, it can have a detrimental effect on everyone here on the forum. This is why we want to address this and set the tone for future fans to come.

 

[Snoipah]

Judging from the title of the thread, I thought this was going to be a reveal of a space virus that infects the Galaxy as suggested during the last stream. I am sad.

 

[Studoku]

Are we allowed to insult you until then, to get all the insults out of our systems?

 

[Elryos]

Also sad, thought there would be something about toxic worlds.

But we cannot and will not tolerate generalization about our Devs

Well, I think all devs are nice people.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

I hope the permanent ban won't be issued easily or as the next step after first temp ban. I don't want the forums to mellow down too much because no one dares to day anything. If that happens, people might just start to make "fake accounts" and troll even more, just because that is the only way to comment and ban means nothing on a fake account. Well, they might keep a more "legit fake account" when making a 100% surely not a bannable post, but when criticising, using a disposable account and being overly toxic compared to what they normally would post.

EDIT: Hope I wasn't toxic.

 

[Devanor]

TinyWiking

Whos dat?

 

[TinyWiking]

I hope the permanent ban won't be issued easily or as the next step after first temp ban. I don't want the forums to mellow down too much because no one dares to day anything. If that happens, people might just start to make "fake accounts" and troll even more, just because that is the only way to comment and ban means nothing on a fake account. Well, they might keep a more "legit fake account" when making a 100% surely not a bannable post, but when criticising, using a disposable account and being overly toxic compared to what they normally would post.
EDIT: Hope I wasn't toxic.

This was not toxic, you voiced a valid concern . This is also why only I and Castellon will be dealing with these reports to begin with as we are both the most senior forum staff and feel that we should shoulder this responsibility. The permanent ban will actually take effect immediately if someone is reported for toxicity after already being struck for it once. This is also why only me and Castellon will do the infractions, we want to make sure mistakes and "harsh" toxicity strikes are avoided.

Whos dat?

That's me. Nice to meet you . I'm the forum manager .

 

[Es57]

While I think that an instant permanent ban is not a bad idea in itself, I hope that there will at least be a way for the offender to explain himself about its conduct and why his post could be not seen as toxic from his own point of view, and possibly reverse the moderator's decision.

I may be overthinking that to the point of exaggeration, but if there is to be an infraction that can affect user accounts in such a severe way, a basic due process and proper defense rights should be allowed.

Else I fear, as some have expressed above, that an excessive wave of self-restraint could lead to the disappearance of any critics on these forums...

 

[Topias]

There are a few more subjective and slippery words in these new rules or at least in how they've been described here than I'm happy with. Rules that are too open to the personal interpretation of individual moderators risk leading into rulings that erode the good will and trust of the userbase. Creating an atmosphere where people don't know what they're allowed to say or where people are not allowed to say what needs to be said can easily drive much of the userbase away. A forum that all devs are happy to participate in isn't much good if the users no longer want to participate in it.

That's the worst case scenario, anyway. I hope the moderation will air on the side of caution and keep tone-policing to a minimum, addressing only the more overt personal attacks. If there is significant variation in what individual devs are willing to tolerate, perhaps some of them should consider limiting their interaction with the forums on their own behalf. Turning the forums into a hugbox should be the last thing you want to do. While I certainly don't think I have any trouble expressing myself in a polite way, I also can't provide all the criticisms that the userbase collectively can.

 

[Devanor]

Else I fear, as some have expressed above, that an excessive wave of self-restraint could lead to the disappearance of any critics on these forums...

While I understand your concern, I think it's unfounded. Temp- and permanent bans will only be issued if it's deserved. People have opinions, often conflicting, but as long as that doesn't erupt into a post full of hate, insults and threats there won't be any serious repercussions. At most a mod will close the thread before it goes out of control.

 

[starz]

an attempt to reduce or eliminate the toxicity levels especially around dev diaries

I browsed the forums and found your post only in this particular section. I take it Stellaris devs called for it and/or are considered the softest target?

 

[Jamor]

I browsed the forums and found your post only in this particular section. I take it Stellaris devs called for it and/or are considered the softest target?

We did not. We just got picked to prototype the process because our forum is so active.

 

[LeSingeAffame]

I browsed the forums and found your post only in this particular section. I take it Stellaris devs called for it and/or are considered the softest target?

The last example I remember is "Well the devs don't know how to make a game anyway, so don't bother stating your opinion", or something like that.
The stuff which is the most susceptible to make the playerbase angry is unexpected gameplay changes (take a look at the FTL changes, which are considered as the greatest insult in the world for some people), which are brought by devs. Other members of the team (artists for example) are most of the time "safe" since they won't bring such gamechanging elements

 

[huyderman]

I think this is a sensible policy, as the toxicity on the forums has at times become quite frustrating. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out, and hope it doesn't blow up off-site...

 

[Johuotar]

Will the forum user agreement rules be updated to include this?

Another thing too. Currently the forum rules seem to be a bit scattered with there being also rules of conduct in addition to the user agreement and subforum specific rules(Hoi forums). I'd like to see all the rules in one place or them to have links to the other rules.

 

[scaper12123]

I am aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall for this change!

 

[Army Pea]

Passion has wild swings from excitement to anger.

I hope a simple warning can keep the discussion from going off the rails during heated debate.

Overall, I think this is a great idea

 

[TinyWiking]

I'd also like to point out that we are not the first company to apply this policy to their forum. Blizzard, Wargaming, Trove etc all have toxicity rules in place to minimize the levels on their forums.

- Will people get a chance to explain their behavior?
No. If you make a post that is classed as toxicity the infractions are permanent. Explaining your actions in a way that makes more sense and is acceptable after someone slaps you for it means that you could have phrased your post differently to begin with. In other words, you should have done that from the start.

- Will you update the forum agreement?
Yes, though it will take a little time. I'm also considering expanding them to make them clearer (though compared to for example Steams ToS they are much clearer !).

- Will you go on a crazy "ban everyone that disagrees with the devs!" spree? (This wasn't asked but I figured I'd be preemptive )
No. Toxicity is a small problem, very very few forumites fall into this category. If your post is a complaint that also includes suggestions on how it can be fixed, why you don't like it, what you'd like instead etc you are in the clear. We encourage our fans to share their views (positive or negative) as long as it's done in a civilized, polite and structured way. Posts like that will also make it easier for us to (possibly) change stuff if we feel you've got a valid point and it's something we've overlooked.

Thank you all for your questions and feedback, I'm following the thread and will answer as best I can.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

Damn, i am already wondering can I say this or that. Well, I just say that I am worried.

EDIT: Regarding that previous post by TinyWiking.

 

[CrowScape]

- Will people get a chance to explain their behavior?
No. If you make a post that is classed as toxicity the infractions are permanent. Explaining your actions in a way that makes more sense and is acceptable after someone slaps you for it means that you could have phrased your post differently to begin with. In other words, you should have done that from the start.

You can always phrase your posts differently. Communication is a two-way process, but this segment right here pretends that it's one-sided.