Rather Silly Independence Faction

[DrewBledsoe]

Well Basically, I'm pushing back the Shia in Iberia, previous King granted a new Duchy of Seville, dies soon after. So now the Duke of Seville starts an Ind faction, with zero troops [and zero for some years to come], zero allies and even a rating of +40 with new King.

Well I'm not of course ever going to do anything more than ignore him, in his lonely zero power faction, but what if an ai had the same, though with other members [with troops] who actually won Independence? The Shia could just walk up to the now Ind zero power guy and huff and puff till they blew his house down. It would be automatic.

So a thought, maybe certain reqs in terms of power, before someone can form or join an Ind faction......or maybe doesn't have any recently conquered modifiers...

 

[Woody Man]

Something needs to be done with factions generally, they are such an annoyance.

 

[Old Man Jenkins]

Something needs to be done with factions generally, they are such an annoyance.

I think they're meant to be annoying.

 

[Woody Man]

I think they're meant to be annoying.

There's factional politics, then there's CK2's nonsensical auto-appear factions. Like the factions who decide your incapable brother should be king, despite the fact they love you, because your brother is a somehow claimant.

 

[ekorovin]

There's factional politics, then there's CK2's nonsensical auto-appear factions. Like the factions who decide your incapable brother should be king, despite the fact they love you, because your brother is a somehow claimant.

Don't be too hard on them, after they put your brother to the throne, they'll gladly support the faction to put you back :sleep:

 

[benice1234]

Don't be too hard on them, after they put your brother to the throne, they'll gladly support the faction to put you back :sleep:

Only after he wrecks everything.

 

[Ithvan]

Only after he wrecks everything.

Medieval history in a nutshell.

 

[Numring]

Factions should be reworked, yeah. There's not so much fun in seeing all of Italy and Burgundy going independent every single time because they aren't "de jure" territory of the HRE.

 

[theKing1988]

Factions should be reworked, yeah. There's not so much fun in seeing all of Italy and Burgundy going independent every single time because they aren't "de jure" territory of the HRE.

You do realize that the HRE actually had a lot of problems keeping control over Italy and Burgundy historically?

The Example with the claimant faction for your idiot brother is really annoying, i agree with that. But Independence factions for Italy and Burgundy are awesome.

 

[Ezumiyr]

There's factional politics, then there's CK2's nonsensical auto-appear factions. Like the factions who decide your incapable brother should be king, despite the fact they love you, because your brother is a somehow claimant.

Factions should be reworked, yeah. There's not so much fun in seeing all of Italy and Burgundy going independent every single time because they aren't "de jure" territory of the HRE.

It means the factions are working as intended.

Remember that the factions aren't cold calculators as the player is often inclined to be. If they put your incapable brother on the throne it means they will have more power for themselves and that they can control the king. Also remember that they don't love you: they express their diplomatic love towards you. So they are less tempted to overthrone you, but eventually, the only thing that matters is their own interest. Of course it's annoying for the player... but it shoud not be changed.

The problem submitted by the OP is that a faction shouldn't send an ultimatum when it has no troops and zero allies. And that's indeed strange.

 

[Numring]

Yes, of course. But as you said, they "had problems keeping control". But for the most part - whatever concessions or wars were necessary - they kept control. Mind the fact that even in the late middle ages, the HRE controlled many Italian territories and always considered Italy to be part of their sphere.
In game, the Emperor looses about 70% of the time and since his military is completely crushed he gets attacked by France or Denmark, looses even more men and will never cross the alps to subjugate the Italians again.

Italy should be rebellious - but right now you might as well make them start independent to save time because it happens literally every single time and that's completely unrealistic.

 

[ekorovin]

Yes, of course. But as you said, they "had problems keeping control". But for the most part - whatever concessions or wars were necessary - they kept control. Mind the fact that even in the late middle ages, the HRE controlled many Italian territories and always considered Italy to be part of their sphere.
In game, the Emperor looses about 70% of the time and since his military is completely crushed he gets attacked by France or Denmark, looses even more men and will never cross the alps to subjugate the Italians again.

Italy should be rebellious - but right now you might as well make them start independent to save time because it happens literally every single time and that's completely unrealistic.

Define "control". Whether or not HRemperor (or king of France, for that matter) had any meaningful control over Italy or Burgundy (or any other outlying part of the empire) is debatable.

 

[Numring]

Define "control". Whether or not HRemperor (or king of France, for that matter) had any meaningful control over Italy or Burgundy (or any other outlying part of the empire) is debatable.

Well, I do agree that a system like Victorias sphere mechanic would be a better representation of the HRE-Italy relations.

But making everything south of the alps independent isn't an accurate portrayal. For example, having been elected King of Germany, he would try to be coronated by the Pope in Rome.
The title itself points to Italy. As an Emperor, conflict with the church and the pope was almost inevitable. The heir was called King of the Romans and the very realm was based on the idea of a "second Rome" uniting the Kingdoms of Germany and Italy (Lombards) and that idea made many Emperors fight wars in Italy or renew the Italians allegiance. The existence of the ghibelline faction later on points to imperial authority in Italy.

My point is not that the Emperor had unrestricted powers but that the idea of italy as a territory belonging in the HRE was a very imprtant factor in German monarch's foreign policies and that they worked to - and often succeeded - in gaining influence there. Once Italy goes independent in CK2 and the emperor doesn't manage to reqonquer all of it during his reign, Italy is effectively lost for the heir and the rest of the game.