Ranking every nation, easiest to hardest

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Icendoan

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ENG -> HRE is probably the easiest low-infamy WC, as it lets you destroy the colonisers quickly, unite Europe for 0 infamy and the holy war everything else. Ottomans are -faster- but you have to deal with lots more infamy.
 

Shiranui

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I don't think we're ranking them easiest to hardest World Conquerors. Just how easy it is to play them normally without getting screwed.
 

WeAreAwful

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Yes...but that AAR doesn't prove that it isn't easier as Ottomans(who have better tech, buildings, early access to hordes, and can Holy War Europe) or Golden Horde(who can just sieze provinces after occupying them for a few years)

Is there any reason you specify Golden Horde rather than the Timurds? I've always thought the Timurds were in the better position.
 

Gnorf

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What about Corfu?
 

Plasma Doctor

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I'd say...

1. France (Let Burgundy and England Fight over Flanders region, die horribly, and then just step in to annex the Flanders region. Alliance with Austria to nuke Bohemia is usually pretty easy to get.)
2. Poland (Provided you keep your PU with Lithuania and Vassalize Prussia, you should be golden. Though an alliance with non-emperor Austria does wonders.)
3. Castille (Strong starting position, good ways to go, though a strong France can ruin your day.)
4. England (As long as you annex/vassalize Scotland, should be smooth sailing since none of your rivals can float a boat)
5. Milan (Provided Austria doesn't DoW day one over northern Italy and France gets into the eternal war with England, which is usual, should be easy to form Italy to form a strong power base.)
 

grommile

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Is there any reason you specify Golden Horde rather than the Timurds? I've always thought the Timurds were in the better position.
The Golden Horde can start eating the Western Group sooner. That's important.
 

il_loco

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Castille, I think, is the easiest. I don't know East part of the map, but for the West I can tell you that Trebizond is a goner from the day one.
 
Jul 15, 2007
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As long as you know what you are doing :

1. Burgundy (Being in HRE, and french culture = BBB but stronger - and you can wage wars in HRE without fighting emperor)
2. Castille (you must be realy bad or unlucky to spoil it)
3. England (Subjugate the isles, go conquer france, then do whatever you want)
4. Poland (100k vassal army is easy to get in 1420 - just PU hungary, conquer mazovia, vassalize TO - westernize by 1450-70)
5. France (ally all vassals, build army, conquer burgundy)
6. Bohemia (It starts weaker than france, but stronger than austria, and you can make as much as austria, except you don't have the fancy missions)
7. Austria (PU bavaria, conquer milan, PU hungary, PU burgundy, PU bohemia, vassalize/bribe & guarantee electors)
8. Turkey (Need some luck and good play)
9. Mamluks (second to turkey)
10. Novgorod (Go admin republic, be best in tech despite bad tech group)
11. Muscowy (Best to form russia very fast - better militarily than novgorod, but it is easier to survive as novgorod, if poland player want to kill you)
12. Denmark (You start as PU leader of 2 PU's, and you start with fairly strong economy)
13. Sweden (You got decent sliders and decisions, even if you start with crappy economy - you are big)
14. Venice (It is strong but need good player)
15. Morocco (Needs westernizing, but is very good to become a strong free trader)
16. Milan (You start at disadvantaged position, but you can easily form italy)
17. Switzerland (Best early goverment, and almost perfect sliders, and decent territory)
18. Hansa (Well - one of the richest countries in northern germany)
19. Holland (Second best free trader, and very rich country, can form netherlands)
20. Navarra (despite the fact that aragon ussualy vassalizes you, it does not make it weak, as it ussualy spare you from annexation by any other nation)
21. Aragon (Weak position, can be attacked by both france and castille, and sometimes it get stomped by italian minors)
22. Portugal (Mostly boring, but you can get destroyed by castille, unless it is AI, or unless it spares you or is very bad player)
23. Brittany (One bad move can make you dead)
24. Hungary (Very bad position, many possible enemies, bad sliders and tech group, while you are quite weak as a country - and most of your neighbours are protected by your stronger neighbours)
25. Teutonic Order (Very bad position, and if poland is player, you need very strong alliances to counter that)
26. Palatinate (You are elector, and you can PU and vassalize other electors - so you are likely to become empeor, if you are faster than austria)
27. Pommeriana (You are small country, but you have potential, and you are protected. Thou you do need to be smart)
28. Bavaria (Few good missions, but you are bordering austria, so you are endangered)
29. Byzantium (If turkey is player, ussualy it mean you are dead, but not nessecarily, still it got potential - but most player will want you dead for the decisions they want to take)
30. Naples (It is not very best country, but you can do something with it, if you are smart)
31. Papal states (Huh)
32. Frankfurt
33. Ulm
34. Aachen
35. Brandenburg
 

Comradebot

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Moldavia deserves a mention as one of the harder nations, and easily one of the hardest in Europe. Eastern tech, 2PM, border the GH and the Ottomans... not ideal. It's both a plus and a negative that you're vassalized by Poland at the start. It gives you a little protection, but Poland can into suck more often than space, and you'll be lucky if Bohemia doesn't force your independence before 1410, leaving you at the mercy of the GH and/or Ottomans.

Oh, and your two provinces? Wool. Took me a few tries to finally survive and thrive with them. Bohemia ended my vassalization with Poland about a year after the first GH invasion ended, giving me four years to get ready to face them. I declared a CB-less war on Wallachia, annexed them, and used the combined forces and size to scrap against the Mongols until they accepted my tribute. From there, I just had to worry about Hungary and the Ottomans while I worked towards forming Romania.


I'd say Pommerania is a very nice dark horse nation for success in Europe. You've got some OK land, you're just large enough to almost field something you could call an army, and you've got a wealth of possibilities for expansion. It's not difficult to wait for the inevitable Teutonic collapse and annex some of their land for much needed manpower, which you can then use to wrestle control of the Baltic away from Sweden, Denmark, and Novgorod if they push that far. Bohemia and Sweden are concerns early on, as Sweden gets a mission to annex you, and an HRE Bohemia is just as likely to try to annex you themselves as they are to protect you from Sweden.
 
Jul 15, 2007
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Moldavian provinces are 6 base tax, so it is quite rich for wool provinces. And wool events give you money, which is nice, aspecialy early.
 

unmerged(200028)

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Moldavia deserves a mention as one of the harder nations, and easily one of the hardest in Europe. Eastern tech, 2PM, border the GH and the Ottomans... not ideal. It's both a plus and a negative that you're vassalized by Poland at the start. It gives you a little protection, but Poland can into suck more often than space, and you'll be lucky if Bohemia doesn't force your independence before 1410, leaving you at the mercy of the GH and/or Ottomans.

Oh, and your two provinces? Wool. Took me a few tries to finally survive and thrive with them. Bohemia ended my vassalization with Poland about a year after the first GH invasion ended, giving me four years to get ready to face them. I declared a CB-less war on Wallachia, annexed them, and used the combined forces and size to scrap against the Mongols until they accepted my tribute. From there, I just had to worry about Hungary and the Ottomans while I worked towards forming Romania.


I'd say Pommerania is a very nice dark horse nation for success in Europe. You've got some OK land, you're just large enough to almost field something you could call an army, and you've got a wealth of possibilities for expansion. It's not difficult to wait for the inevitable Teutonic collapse and annex some of their land for much needed manpower, which you can then use to wrestle control of the Baltic away from Sweden, Denmark, and Novgorod if they push that far. Bohemia and Sweden are concerns early on, as Sweden gets a mission to annex you, and an HRE Bohemia is just as likely to try to annex you themselves as they are to protect you from Sweden.

Moldavian provinces are 6 base tax, so it is quite rich for wool provinces. And wool events give you money, which is nice, aspecialy early.

Right now I'm getting to the "I'm too powerful and this is starting to get boring" stage of the game. I started with Milan and formed Italy. Fortunately I have a very powerful Austria that I am contending with right on my border. They are expanding into the Balkans rapidly, and I am sphering its neighbors and vassalizing them. So, that part of the game is still exciting, my struggle with Austria. I digress, however...

Anyway, now I'm considering Moldavia for my next game. I don't believe I've ever tried them, and they seem to be challenging, yet have the right amount of potential.

Iwanow, isn't it odd for the 6 Base Tax, considering that almost every province in that area is dirt poor?
 

yequr

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Well, if you have a look at the provinces that border Moldavia:
Cherson 5 Wool GH
Podolia 6 Grain Lithuania
Ruthenia 2 Grain Poland
Carpathia 3 Naval Supplies Hungary
Transsilvania 6 Wool Tr.
Wallachia 6 Grain Wallachia
Silistria 3 Fish Ottomans

The trade goods suck (and so do Pommerania's with 2x6 Naval S. & 1x3 Fish by the way for comparison, they're just more comfortably located), but the region is not horrible tax-wise. While it's no Holland, Moldavia is not THAT poor. The problem lies mainly in who borders them and maybe or not the fact that they're a vassal.

Edit: Carpathia actually even has tax 3
 
Last edited:

funshine

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Moldavia is pretty easy you just cancel your vassalastion in the war against golden horde and you will become a vassel off the golden horde so your going to be safe for a long time just trade and get rich wait for the golden horde to be weakened by a big nation and then you jump in with them and take there land .

Edit heres a picture what i mean http://i.imgur.com/LnqYN2K.jpg
 
Last edited:

yequr

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I just had a try at them: I ended the vassalization, paid GH (still positive yearly income*, which is wonderful - becoming a vassal of them is unreliable and they'll probably just annex, so I'm hoping for Ottomans to get crushed by Castille instead), got stab to -2 by December, went after Wallachia... and, after killing their army, got destroyed by Epirus (damn it, Naples!) of all countries due to bad dice rolls. Very embarassing, but promising. I'm certain I can do better than this.

*actually not, I looked before actually signing the peace... but maybe with better stab... and I have a merc regiment right now
 
Last edited:
Jul 15, 2007
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Moldavia was quite rich, because it was on the main trade route thru poland to bosphorus. It was able to raise a considerable army too(however not without help).
 

panionios

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Are people assuming a 1399 (or 1448) start? Or is it easiest to hardest during the entire game span? Because, for example, Muscowy is hard in 1399 but once Russia forms and gets its historical size, it's amongst the easiest.
 

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Seeing as I don't think I saw this anywhere, time to rank the best of the worst, seeing as I have run through SP and some MP games with all of these. The Native American minors:

1. Tie between the Huron and Iroquios (I find that the extra city advantage the Iroquios have isn't really noticable): Take over your neighbour as soon as they get a rebellion and play wack a mole for 50 years while rushing either to gov 10 for Noble Republic or Land 3 for forts (I usually go land 3 first). When playing against the AI you usually have an extra 50 years before you will see colonists, and while this slow start can be bad it gives you alot of time to build up your sliders for rapid westernizing. The other advantage here is that you usually don't run into big colonial powers like Castille as your neighbours and that you tend to not see roaming death stacks coming to annex your territory till after someone has set up a colony on your border. I have found I usually end up with weak neighbours like Venice or German OPMs which don't prove to be much of a threat and you can grab their lands pretty easily. Like the other NA Natives you have Tribal Democracy which lets you (Hopefully) pick a high Admin leader when it comes time to westernize.

2. Cherokee/Shawnee/Creek: Your open to invasions pretty early here but you can atleast try and eat one of your neighbours (or both of them) and once you core them use the extra manpower to try and form a united front against the Europeans till you can Westernize.Like the other NA Natives you have Tribal Democracy which lets you (Hopefully) pick a high Admin leader when it comes time to westernize.

3. Inca: Like the Huron and Iroquios you get a slight time advantage compared to the Aztecs, Mayans etc. Your terrain tends to be good but your biggest problem here is that unlike the Huron and Iroquios your likely to see Europeans landing in your lands before seeing neighbouring colonies, so your Westernization is going to be behind. Land 3 is a must to get those forts but you also have a much slower tech rate then the other natives. Like the other South/Central American Natives you also have very badly set up sliders.

4. Aztec/Zapotecs: Your open to early invasions, you tend to be jumped on by Castille or Portugal. Like the other South/Central American Natives you also have very badly set up sliders.

5. Mayan: Same situation as Aztec/Zapotec but you got Tribal Depotism too which is pretty much a death scentence when it comes to Westernizing unless you get very lucky.

For all these playing in MP and even SP is more or less luck of the draw. If when your first European neighbour shows up, you are set up to immediatly start westernizing, you can potentially become extremely deadly. Once you hit western tech group your tech should have jumped atleast 20 levels in a few years, even just moving to Eastern or Muslim you should see massive boosts to your tech in a very short time (increasing by 5-6 techs in each catagory a month early on). Native American infantry are both terrible and not bad at the same time. I found once you get the land score up to Western levels your troops tend to atleast compete with the Europeans but you definatly want to westernize the army. Once you do that and get a Noble Republic (so the Euros can't seize your lands) you can turn yourself into a major power in the Americas (really you just need the Tech Westernized to be able to hold your own but Army and Gov reforms are needed to really do more).
 
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yequr

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I can agree, but only the Mayans start as Tribal Despotism though, all others are Tribal Democracy (which feels more like a Theocracy than anything when playing, but whatever). :)
Second try as Moldavia, I'm still alive in late 1402. Ottomans are winning against Timur though (at least they have a crappy mission - vassalize Dulkadir, who is already a vassal of Timmies :p) while Hungary has killed Bohemia's army and is now apparently sieging them. Of all the games! Not what I was wishing for...
 

Ranger900

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Forgot they changed up Aztecs and them in Divine Wind. I played most of the natives other then the NA ones on HTTT I think the order of easiest to hardest would remain the same but it makes Mayans as the #5 because they are even worse off then the Aztecs then.

Edited my previous post :p
 
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