Ranking every nation, easiest to hardest

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I've just come up with an interesting idea: for those wondering which country to play as, we could rank every nation from easiest to hardest, so they can play according to the list and their skill level. If this thread is successful enough, maybe we could even do it with mods. I think we should do it incrementally, starting with the 5 easiest and 5 hardest nations.
 

I666NoB666I

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Ill just get this started, re-order if you see fit!

1. Castille
2. England
3. France
4. Burgundy
5. Poland
 

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Ill just get this started, re-order if you see fit!

1. Castille
2. England
3. France
4. Burgundy
5. Poland
Isn't Poland in the Eastern tech group?
 

Shiranui

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I'd replace Poland with Austria
1. Castille
2. England
3. France
4. Burgundy
5. Austria
6. Bohemia?
7. Poland?
8. Portugal?

Sweden should be somewhere in here.

Hardest... well there's Ryukyu, Chimu, Byzantium, Arakan... I don't know what order as I haven't played them.
 

Icendoan

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1. Castille
2. England
3. France
4. Austria
5. Burgundy
6. The Ottomans
7. Poland (eastern tech doesn't stop it being strong!)
8. Bohemia
9. Bavaria
10. Portugal
11. Sweden
12. Holland
13. Navarra
...
Most things here.
...
N-4. Chimu (placement means they can take over Inca, and have same culture cores and westernisation sliders by the time the westerners make it round to Peru.)
N-3. Huron/Iroquois (same as Chimu, but no delicious gold provinces)
N-2. Ryukyu (Ming guarantee means you're generally left alone, and you have a decent enough Free Trade slider to make things work.)
N-1. Granada (DoW day one, vastly outnumbered and generally also a crusade target.)
N. Arakan (DoW day one, vastly outnumbered, OPM with no fort in SE Asia. Not easy.)
 

sprites

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well you have some interpretation here ...
I'd put Navarra way behind , as AI just loves to screw you , it took me 7 restarts before i could play past 1420 , Castille and France just love to annex me.

Ottomans are mroe powerful than Bavaria , but I find them harder to play , too! etc
 

gela1212

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well you have some interpretation here ...
I'd put Navarra way behind , as AI just loves to screw you , it took me 7 restarts before i could play past 1420 , Castille and France just love to annex me.

Ottomans are mroe powerful than Bavaria , but I find them harder to play , too! etc

Really? I've never had a problem with getting annexed as Navarra unless Aragon doesn't start with Vassalize Navarre, magically.
 

Icendoan

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well you have some interpretation here ...
I'd put Navarra way behind , as AI just loves to screw you , it took me 7 restarts before i could play past 1420 , Castille and France just love to annex me.

The trick with Navarra is to let yourself get vassalised by Aragon, as they start in 1399 with a mission to do (90% of the time, at least), and you can trade easily and escape to the new world well before 1420. Once you have colonies overseas you become temporarily impossible to annex until France/Castille catches up with you, by which time you should be much better off. The only starting risk is that (somehow) Sicily should reach you before Aragon, so they don't vassalise you but annex you.

Edit: Ninja'd.
 

yequr

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1. England (occupy Paris makes it stronger than Castille)
2. Castille
3. Burgundy (their power equals France, but I think their position is stronger)
4. France
5. Austria
6. The Ottomans
7. Bohemia
8. Poland
9. Aragon
10. Portugal
11. Venice
12. Bavaria
13. Sweden
14. Denmark
15. Hansa
16. Novgorod
17. Naples
18. Teutonic Order
19. Vijayanagar?
20. Holland (yeah, they have great potential, but they can quickly be toast)
21. Muscovy?
...
??. Navarra (it's pretty much a one trick pony unless you get REALLY lucky)
...

N-15 Mongol Khanate (Ming&Manchu)
N-14 Oirat Horde (surrounded by enemies including Ming, lack of forts)
N-13. Granada (still better than most new world pagans, I think)
N-12. Chimu (arguably stronger by 1500 than other 'murricans, yes)
N-11 Aztec (Probably the strongest of the mesoamericans, since they have cores on the two nastiest revolt provinces in the region)
N-10. Zapotec (Mexico gets attacked early by Europeans)
N-9 Maya (similarly awkward position to Creek, only American Tribal Despotism, low tax provinces. There is Aztec Gold around, but... )
N.-8 Oyo (Pagan, not in good position)
N-7 Creek (very awkward position at the coast)
N-6. Ryukyu
N-5 Bar (Burgundy will kill you. Very good sliders though)
N-4 Ethiopia (diplomatically isolated, religious mess)
N-3. Kongo (isolated and weak)
N-2 Epirus (Hello, Naples! Ottomans and Venice don't like you either. Also very poor)
N-1. Arakan
N. Benin (like Arakan, but worse situation if they survive)

Of course, it's all arguable and some nations are hard to compare. For example, I have no idea where to put Ming because of their system. Or the Navarra discussion (which I missed while typing this) - yes, typical Navarra strategy is pretty much foolproof if not for Sicily, but does that make them that easy?
 
Last edited:

Icendoan

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Now, I'd say England is stronger than Castille, but Castille is easier. You really don't have to put much effort into being strong as Castille. To realize England's ability you do have to already be quite competent - fighting France on their home soil isn't really easy. Also, England isn't the contender for most powerful without the Occupy Paris mission. Castille just doesn't need the same level of skill to be strong.

Aragon is harder than Portugal. Portugal is richer, starts with an alliance to England and doesn't border France. Also, gets impressive colonial decisions and missions, which allow it to become powerful quite quickly (and without too much resistance). Aragon you have to fight every step of the way.

Navarra is a one trick pony, but it makes that trick nice and easy. :)

The worst I've ever had as Holland was vassalised by Burgundy. I generally just run to the New World as Holland.

The problem with Arakan really is the religion - at least in Africa you are all of the right religion. Arakan doesn't even start off with it's province religion as it's state religion! Benin, at least, you start on a slightly more level playing field.
 

yequr

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They start allied with Aragon, and Aragon DoWs Navarra with Subjugation CB on Day 1. Sicily will not have it and, if they get there first, annex them.
 

Qemarar

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I think Brandenburg should be in there somewhere. The AI usually fails with most nations inside the HRE, but both of my Germany games were with Brandenburg. Once you can field as much men as Bohemia, it's just a steady climb in power.
 

sprites

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The trick with Navarra is to let yourself get vassalised by Aragon, as they start in 1399 with a mission to do (90% of the time, at least), and you can trade easily and escape to the new world well before 1420. Once you have colonies overseas you become temporarily impossible to annex until France/Castille catches up with you, by which time you should be much better off. The only starting risk is that (somehow) Sicily should reach you before Aragon, so they don't vassalise you but annex you.

Edit: Ninja'd.

oh yeah , but being vassal of Aragon doesn't stop Castille or France declaring war on me ...
 

grommile

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Castille and Austria are the two easiest countries, since their 1399 starting positions are fairly straightforward. England, France, and Burgundy are all stronger, but you have to know what you're doing. (Especially France-in-5.2, where Charles VI has historically accurate stats...)
 

Icendoan

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oh yeah , but being vassal of Aragon doesn't stop Castille or France declaring war on me ...

It does stop them annexing you, as they can't make a peace with you directly, and we know how silly the AI is with war demands.
 

sprites

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well , as a vassal i can't neociate , and Aragon is prone selling me off ...
 

magitsu

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Some underestimation with Navarra going on.
They have the best sliders in the game.
If you for example steal half of Granada under Castille's nose you are in better position than Portugal to actually fund your colonial adventures (mega trade income vs. Portugal's weak mercantile slider).

When you go past OPM suddenly Castille will start guaranteeing you etc.
If you are vassalized by Aragon at the first instance this of course does not work. So a bit of early luck is involved.

Versatile of course it is not.
 
Last edited:

unmerged(200028)

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This is specific to October 14, 1399, correct?

I think France is probably stronger than Castille at the very beginning, despite being in a little more complicated situation.
 

tuareg109

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Byzantium in 1399 is horrifying.
Byzantium in 1405 is actually fairly easy.