Random World Generator: A Modest Proposal

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ASULoki

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ok, I know I am living in a utopian dream world where forum lurkers can just propose ideas and the mighty developer gods will just answer such prayers, but I would ask that anyone who bothers to read this hears me out real quick and consider this proposal. I am briefly proposing that the good folks at paradox add a random world generator feature to one of their epic-grand-strategic games of awesomeness (such as EUIV) to make them more repayable, interesting, and strategic-epic-grand...ier.

I refer you to this, made by one dude. Its buggy and kind of odd, but I think it represents the prototype of what I am proposing here. It works for all versions of Victoria 2 and is worth your attention. I am not saying this is considerably more fun than vanilla v2 as it stands, but represents the core of a great idea that could add a level of civ-like randomly generated activeness to the game.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?546055-Victoria-II-Random-World-Generator!/page9

I will briefly make a few points to try to advance this proposal, I make these not because I know anything, but to form the parameters of having a discussion about this. Please feel free to add arguments in favor or against of your own or critique mine.

PROS!
1. If one guy could make something like this for a complex game like v2 with its fancy pops, implementing this for and EU game would be a bit easier, and if a small team of in shop-programmers did this over a few days, they could make something vastly better in a small amount of time.
2. It in no way compromises the balance or features of the actual game, want to be england in 1399? No problem. Want to play some wacky procedurally generated ahistorical nation with all sorts of crazy random stuff? Just select the option.
3. It is something that could easily be added to an expansion of the game, and really would offer a feature novel enough to justify buying it. (I think some paradox expansions can be a bit conservative, I think they have done a great job of improving the interface and tedious micromanagement in each expansion, but this would be something new and exiting and sexy that could promote sales of the expansion. Heck, you could even just charge like 10 bucks for it standalone!
4. I think that the little extras that came with EU2 like the vinland campaign were so much fun, you like fun right paradox? Have a little fun with the series, we are a dedicated fanbase that supports you when you try something different!

CONS!
1. I am programming stupid, and this probably so much harder than I am making it sound, please weigh in on this folks!
2. That's a civ thing, this is PI, the PI experience is all about players forging their own ahistorical path within a rich historical context. (not disagreeing here, but again, this could just be slapped on without compromising that!)
3. Modders will probably do it for free. (Not opposed to this intrinsically, not much movement on this front for a while though. It was attempted for EU3 and the V2 example above, but not much seems to have come of it.)

CONCLUSION
So I ask you fell grand strategy nerds? Don't you feel that more strategery would be added to the EU series if paradox implemented this excellent idea as an additional feature in their games? Don't you think it is a great way to add content, without compromising the core features or balance of the game? Don't you think the time and resource investment would be minimal relative to the improvement in replay-ability and potential fun?!

Write your local congressman or something, but most importantly I want to try to start a good discussion about this proposal. Thanks for reading my rant!
 

Killzerslaul

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I think this could be fun. The Vicky 2 random world generator was definitely entertaining.

The one main problem I can see with implementing something like this in EU4 is the huge amount of nation-specific content added. I guess they could generic-ify the names then randomly assign unique NIs to countries, or just remove nation specific NIs from "random-mode" completely and apply sweeping generic NIs to the random countries as with Tier 4 nations.
 

Wowwars

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Random NIs setups would be nice. having 2 Very op Nation's ideas for your randomly picked nation would be killa. Mix of Hansa/Portugals
 

unmerged(46341)

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ok, I know I am living in a utopian dream world where forum lurkers can just propose ideas and the mighty developer gods will just answer such prayers, but I would ask that anyone who bothers to read this hears me out real quick and consider this proposal. I am briefly proposing that the good folks at paradox add a random world generator feature to one of their epic-grand-strategic games of awesomeness (such as EUIV) to make them more repayable, interesting, and strategic-epic-grand...ier.

I refer you to this, made by one dude. Its buggy and kind of odd, but I think it represents the prototype of what I am proposing here. It works for all versions of Victoria 2 and is worth your attention. I am not saying this is considerably more fun than vanilla v2 as it stands, but represents the core of a great idea that could add a level of civ-like randomly generated activeness to the game.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?546055-Victoria-II-Random-World-Generator!/page9

I will briefly make a few points to try to advance this proposal, I make these not because I know anything, but to form the parameters of having a discussion about this. Please feel free to add arguments in favor or against of your own or critique mine.

PROS!
1. If one guy could make something like this for a complex game like v2 with its fancy pops, implementing this for and EU game would be a bit easier, and if a small team of in shop-programmers did this over a few days, they could make something vastly better in a small amount of time.
2. It in no way compromises the balance or features of the actual game, want to be england in 1399? No problem. Want to play some wacky procedurally generated ahistorical nation with all sorts of crazy random stuff? Just select the option.
3. It is something that could easily be added to an expansion of the game, and really would offer a feature novel enough to justify buying it. (I think some paradox expansions can be a bit conservative, I think they have done a great job of improving the interface and tedious micromanagement in each expansion, but this would be something new and exiting and sexy that could promote sales of the expansion. Heck, you could even just charge like 10 bucks for it standalone!
4. I think that the little extras that came with EU2 like the vinland campaign were so much fun, you like fun right paradox? Have a little fun with the series, we are a dedicated fanbase that supports you when you try something different!

CONS!
1. I am programming stupid, and this probably so much harder than I am making it sound, please weigh in on this folks!
2. That's a civ thing, this is PI, the PI experience is all about players forging their own ahistorical path within a rich historical context. (not disagreeing here, but again, this could just be slapped on without compromising that!)
3. Modders will probably do it for free. (Not opposed to this intrinsically, not much movement on this front for a while though. It was attempted for EU3 and the V2 example above, but not much seems to have come of it.)

CONCLUSION
So I ask you fell grand strategy nerds? Don't you feel that more strategery would be added to the EU series if paradox implemented this excellent idea as an additional feature in their games? Don't you think it is a great way to add content, without compromising the core features or balance of the game? Don't you think the time and resource investment would be minimal relative to the improvement in replay-ability and potential fun?!

Write your local congressman or something, but most importantly I want to try to start a good discussion about this proposal. Thanks for reading my rant!

So much yes. A million times yes.
 

Gatkramp

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Would be fun for some, but sort of contradict what PDS games are (and I would never play it). Alternatively, you could go play the Civilisation games.
 

unmerged(46341)

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Would be fun for some, but sort of contradict what PDS games are (and I would never play it). Alternatively, you could go play the Civilisation games.

That's like asking for an addition to chess, and someone telling you to go play checkers...

A random world generator is a great idea. EU4 probably needs it less than any other paradox game, because the world is pretty balanced and malleable at the start, but CK2 or especially Vicky2 would be infinitely better with some kind of proper random world generator for longevity.
 

ASULoki

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Agreed, I would have liked to see such a thing in those games much more because randomizing everything removes the uber empires (GB and HRE in each game respectively) from the equation.
 

Mr Tex

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Would be fun for some, but sort of contradict what PDS games are (and I would never play it). Alternatively, you could go play the Civilisation games.

Yeah except for EU, Vicky, and CK being a crap load better than anything that the Civilization games have to offer!
Not only that but I would love to play this with the EU map not with the crappy Civilization maps, those are just weird in my opinion. Same with the time increments, why would it take anyone 30 years to build a pasture? I mean I guess if you had nothing to lose and weren't worried bout getting paid, then sure take 30+ years to make a frickin fence! (sorry as you can tell im not at all fond of the Civilization games.)

Now that my venting is pretty much done, I support this idea entirely! Along with a empty world map mode like they had back in EU1, that one was really fun for MP! However the strict "PDS should never make anything that isn't history related" crowd will certainly keep this from happening. Its funny how double standard their arguments usually are though isn't it? They say that PDS doesn't have enough time to implement all this stuff and how it "shouldn't be in the game" are also the ones telling PDS how they got the city position of a random province in the middle of Siberia off by half an inch and how terrible they are at history, and saying what should already be in the base game....
Crap well there I am venting again...

Before I start venting again, and to summarize, I entirely support this idea and hope that it is implemented!
 

ASULoki

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Yeah I put up the link for people to take a look at that one. Some folks patched it up for AHD and that seems to be compatible with HoD also, but for me in HoD and AHD it runs unplayably slow. I hope the modding community for EU4 and Vicky 2 look into something like this, as popularity may get paradox involved.
 

ASULoki

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Ha, I agree tex. I think if we were talking about a feature that could compromise the base game, I could understand their high consciousness and militancy scores, but stifling innovation and fun in the name of historical accuracy seems a bit obstructionist, after all we historians don't have to always be buzzkills! I also agree about the stuff included in EUI and II, there were some fun little non-random ahistorical scenarios, while I want more than just that, I think the addition of some other fun things like this could also help with replay-ability.
 

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There's been talk (well, hope) of a DLC that creates a random New World, so Europe/Asia is the same, but North and South America are randomized.

That would be amazingly awesome.

But, I suppose it's not much further to also allow the option to completely randomize the entire world. Either one would be totally worth a $15-$20 dollar DLC to me.
 

Orko80

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Anyone remembers that old game? Quite like Patricer series. With a fixed europe map. But everything else was in terra incocnita and random generated. You had to send out expiditions to uncover the new lands and everything was random generated on game start.

I can't remember the name and find anithing on google. Makes me crazy. It's quite old arround the early 90's old.

Something like that could be interesting. Fixed europe but randomized new world's. Asia, Amerika and afrka. Not only who has what there but the whole geographics.
 

ASULoki

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Orko, the only thing I can think of is maybe the game Colonization? But you say "fixed europe" and europe was only a menu in that game. I would be very interested to hear more about this game, sorry I can't be more help.
 

ASULoki

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I hadn't heard that Fint, thanks for informing us, this is great news and PI may have "scooped me!" I worry though on two counts about ONLY making the new world random, one is related to game-play, and one is ethical:
1. I want something with a number of options similar or superior to that of the world gen in civ, except the map would stay the same but the population levels, religion, culture, nations and cores etc would be the variables instead of the terrain. I think like you say it would be easy to expand this idea, and there is no reason to limit it only to the new world, why not keep the players options open, and let them select the continents to screw with? Restricting the player's choices is not what PI or video game fun in general is all about!
2. I think that seems to imply something that should be opposed by historians. That implies that while European history is central to the goings on of the globe, the history of the new world up to the European conquest was kind of irrelevant. Such a belief would imply that not only does the history of the Americas not really matter (at least as much as Europe), but that it was sort of inevitable that Europeans were going to inherit the continent, and that it was not the specific historical context of people places and events playing out the way they did that led to this result. I think that maybe I am being a bit preachy here about colonization in game in general (I recognize that it is an important mechanic and thing-that-happened that must be included in the series. And I hope fellow nerds, that you fret as I do about slaughtering natives to make way for your little animated ships of Englishmen or Portuguese to carve out your new enclave!)

So thanks for the info fint, and I would like your thoughts on this matter. I think we as a special subset of nerds, history nerds, should strive to encourage our corporate patrons through our consumer choices that particular controversial historical issues should be handled with nuance and thought to both historical accuracy and political correctness. It is our responsibility and if you guys are interested I think there are a number of issues to work out in general regarding the colonization mechanic for EU, and we could open up a thread about it.
 

Galaahd

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There's been talk (well, hope) of a DLC that creates a random New World, so Europe/Asia is the same, but North and South America are randomized.

That would be amazingly awesome.

But, I suppose it's not much further to also allow the option to completely randomize the entire world. Either one would be totally worth a $15-$20 dollar DLC to me.

That would be great.
 

ASULoki

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I should also add, while I am being ranty that I think PI has some real courage to take on the historical issues that it has in historical videogames. This isn't a mindless company that lets you shoot Nazis because we all know they are evil (and may possibly be zombies), PI allows us to explore an alternate history where Germany may have made different historical choices (ones that could be regarded as better or worse than those that happened historically). I highly praise them for this, the EU series in particular has accomplished a great deal, and the fact that you can use the mechanics to achieve historical outcomes for "uncivilized nations" that are possible. I will never forget when I sailed to Europe as a unified modern India for the first time and started pushing them around! There was one AAR (golly I wish I could find the link) where someone played a North American tribe and managed to take over most of the world, and it was one of the funniest and best things out there. So I want to commend Paradox for taking the risks it has and tackling controversial issues.

Part of the idea behind the customization to the world proposal is letting us explore those ahistorical scenarios even further. Why not run with it? Paradox, let me play with history until I break it, remember, loosing is fun!
 

aramael

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Anyone remembers that old game? Quite like Patricer series. With a fixed europe map. But everything else was in terra incocnita and random generated. You had to send out expiditions to uncover the new lands and everything was random generated on game start.

I can't remember the name and find anithing on google. Makes me crazy. It's quite old arround the early 90's old.

Something like that could be interesting. Fixed europe but randomized new world's. Asia, Amerika and afrka. Not only who has what there but the whole geographics.

I guess you're thinking of Imperialism II (available to buy at gog.com btw). It's a classic.