Random World Generation...

[unmerged(3787)]

...and my thoughts on them.

1. The Physical Map of the World - I can't see it. Leave the provinces as they are.

2. Everything else - allow random filters. That could be fun.

Sample:

a. Religon - assigns random religons to each province AND nation.
b. Trade - assigns random production to each province AND moves the COT's around.
c. Language (if EUII does this) - each province has a randomly generated language.
d. Diplomacy - political alliances, CB's and various relations all fall under this category.
e. Map view - what you can see around you.
f. Provinces - how many provinces you control and where they are.
g. Technology and stability - starting values vary a bit; also affects starting gold value.
h. Nations - entire nations start out in spots where they never would have been.
i. Populations - self-evident.

etc.

You can also have three settings for this random generator:

1. Nation specific - the whole map or just your nation?
2. Ultimate chaos - total random probabilities.
3. Organized chaos - the random probability tables are affected by the first province generated, etc. Increase the chance that Catholic nations are beside each other etc.

Using this filter system you can play a game that is as simple as just having your nation with a randomly generated religon - i.e. France as Shiite/Sunni/Catholic/Orthodox to start?

OR

You could trust fate and end up with:

- An Orthodox English speaking France made up of Trivandrum, Cochin, both Sri Lanka provinces and a colony in Apulia.
- Stability is -3 but Land/Navy/Trade/Infrastructure are 3/2/1/3 respectively.
- You have a great view of the world and know about most of Europe and Asia, but nothing about Siberia, North and South America.
- All your provinces are wool producing economic disasters but right next door yoiur neighbor has a gold producing province with a COT in it (otherwise known as TARGET).

etc.

That kind of game would have LOTS of fantasy and random elements and should satisfy anyone's thirst for 'new' games.

Here's hoping,

YKOil

 

[Alexander Seil]

Nah, it's not that fun to play on some generated maps, where every country is meaningless, where no country even has history...i am neutral on it, but they CAN possibly implement it...i think there is mod for EUI though, it generates random scenarios, you might want to get it.

 

[unmerged(3627)]

Even such limited randomness of nations as you suggest requires wholesale changes in the way the game engine works - for example, the revolt.txt file which lists what nations might appear and where. If countries are in completely the wrong place, that file is useless, so it'd have to be rewritten for random games. There are probably a bunch of other files with similar problems, so I don't see it happening.

 

[sunzoner]

There is a mod for EU I that do all this...
So there might be a mod in EU II that do all this...
Just wait or program it yourself...

 

[unmerged(538)]

Originally posted by Alexander Seil
Nah, it's not that fun to play on some generated maps, where every country is meaningless, where no country even has history...i am neutral on it, but they CAN possibly implement it...i think there is mod for EUI though, it generates random scenarios, you might want to get it.

The concept is good for games like SMAC, Civ III, or Moo3, where you would want things to not be expected.

But in such a historic game, I wouldn't like to see it.

 

[Avocado Aguila]

I support the motion - it would be fun not to know where different places/nations are

Avocado

 

[Lethke]

Could be kinda funny, but then again it's not in character of the game.

 

[ShrineGuard]

I would think just some sort of updated Fantasia would be nice...Select your nation and starting province, and off you go.

 

[unmerged(3856)]

I got very, very bored with the "I think I will go and discover Manhattan now" thing. The trade goods to be found in the 'New World' should be randomised at least to some extent. I personally wouldn't mind an 'Imperialism' style set up where the entire 'New World' is random.

IMHO long term replayability is a definite problem for the game in its current form.

 

[unmerged(3620)]

Originally posted by Lou Wigman
I got very, very bored with the "I think I will go and discover Manhattan now" thing. The trade goods to be found in the 'New World' should be randomised at least to some extent. I personally wouldn't mind an 'Imperialism' style set up where the entire 'New World' is random.

IMHO long term replayability is a definite problem for the game in its current form.

I, like, totally agree. But the historical slideshow crowd has
this game in a box, so don't hold your breath. I conquered the
world a couple of times and couldn't face another round of "random"
exploration.

An ordinary 4X game (explore, expand, exploit, exterminate) does
not play well with the explore phase missing. And so EU does not
really play well as a strategic game.

Perhaps EUII will fix this, perhaps not. As it is I will check back
here a month or two after the release to see what the consensus
is - but if the basic game is still EUI with some refinements and
no consessions to the grand strategy player then I probably won't
be going fo a second helping.

OTOH, CivIII is getting close now. And Galactic Civilisations is
making it's Windows debut next year, so us hard core kick-ass
grow, Grow, GROW addicts will probably get a fix anyway.

Peace be unto ye all.

 

[Winkelried]

Right, don't let EU turn into a civ type game there are already enough of them.

 

[unmerged(212)]

In other threads there have been extensive discussions of the pro's & con's of random world generation. However, Paradox [Greven] has stated that there will not be random generation of terrain in any aspect of the game.

There have been some other threads that discuss randomizing exploration, colonization, and province production. The idea behind these threads is to enhance replayability - so players aren't rewarded for stampeding to certain provinces that are known to be good. IMO these are good ideas as they'd clearly enhance replayability but it's unclear if any are going to be implemented in this version of EU2.

We should be getting beta tester feedback on these points soon.

 

[unmerged(5666)]

Paradox could surely please both crowds by creating a few "fantasia" worlds for replayability. They could create one of Europe and an entirely new "new world". I certainly support the idea of randomizing resources (at least locally for gold in central america) for replayability.

 

[unmerged(5162)]

If the english know about the inca gold, didn't they tried to reach it before the spanish? Its like: we are going back to the past, and whisper to the king's hear 'go west'. It would be nice to reach the shore and, suprise, 'wow, this people wear gold!', play it again and the same province is just habitated by fishermans.

 

[unmerged(3787)]

I have to plant myself...

...in the middle now (kind-of) after reading the responses.

Heyesey has a good point - certain tags or programming conditions have to exist. So any randomization should probably take that in mind.

STILL

That said I can look at the filters I put forward and make up these revisions:

a. Religion - assigns random religons to each province and nation.

I can't see a problem with this really EXCEPT where the National religion is involved. It still shouldn't be problematic BUT it could be.

b. Trade - assigns random production to each province AND moves the COT's around.

COT's could be problematic BUT I fail to see where making Samara a grain province interferes with the basic game engine.

c. Language (if EUII does this) - each province has a randomly generated language.

Depends on EUII I guess.

d. Diplomacy - political alliances, CB's and various relations all fall under this category.

CB's could be problematic BUT starting relations and marraiges etc. should all be easy to implement.

e. Map view - what you can see around you.

Shouldn't be a problem EXCEPT where hard-wired AI commands are involved.

f. Provinces - how many provinces you control and where they are.

Heyesey is right - this stuff could be require a lot game engine tinkering. I would be willing to drop it from my list.

g. Technology and stability - starting values vary a bit; also affects starting gold value.

No problems here.

h. Nations - entire nations start out in spots where they never would have been.

Heyesey is, again, correct. This one can go.

i. Populations - self-evident.

Can't see a problem.

These are still valid - You can also have three settings for this random generator:

1. Nation specific - the whole map or just your nation?
2. Ultimate chaos - total random probabilities.
3. Organized chaos - the random probability tables are affected by the first province generated, etc. Increase the chance that Catholic nations are beside each other etc.

*****

Thus it should still be possible to end up playing an Orthodox Russia where every province is a 700-3000+ population GOLD producing economic powerhouse in the making... except that stability is starting at -3 and all the provinces profess to believe in the teaching of Islam (Shiite). The good news is that your troops are amazingly well trained (Land tech level 3 to start)... the bad news is the Danilo Shenja and Danilo Kholmski share the command of your only brigade - 1000 cavalry currently in Archangelsk.

Have fun....

And that is the whole idea. Having fun. A little randomness can go a long way in making a game playable for years and not just months.

YKOil

 

[unmerged(4990)]

Umm you can do that already on EU I......

Its a program at the EU arsenal called random scenario generator. It's great for this kind of thing, all though you have to specify some certain things like the location of the capitals and the like.


Happy hunting

 

[unmerged(212)]

Imperialism II addressed the exploration/colonization aspect of its game this way: The old world was known (but random) and then there was substantial TI; the new world was randomized.

I'm curious if even the people who play EU for the history would be be interested in a random new world?

 

[unmerged(485)]

I would love to have the option of a totally random new world a la IMP2.
With a hard coded map it though it can't happen. The best we could do is what the random generation progrram already does.

 

[unmerged(212)]

Hopefully someone will come up with some way to make new world modifications. I think I'd be OK with a historic old world and random or at least modified new world.

 

[unmerged(3787)]

Of course Constantine XI...

...is correct - there is a download for that.

It would be nice though to have it be a nice official part of the game.

Ways to extend game life:

1. Detail - lots to learn means lots of play.

2. Multi-player - different opponents means different games (until some universal strategies get adopted).

3. Good game - 'nuff said.

4. Add on packs - new stuff revitalizes.

5. Random game generation - different game every time.

As far as I can tell EU has most of those - but having all of them is spades would almost make it unique in gaming today. Let's make it official.

YKOil