Random usurpation/defection and what to do about it

[aniuby]

Hi all, aniuby here from the EU3 forums. I just got CKII recently and I'm loving it, though I still don't understand some of the mechanics so please forgive me for the daft questions.

I've just on my first game as the Earl of Tyrconnell - formed Britannia and claimed the de jure territories in 100 years, got Andalusia from a crusade, and inherited bits of Norway, all things which I'd consider part of my empire and I'd like to keep.

However, what I can't understand is when courtiers in my court "seize control of duchy" from random places around the world, then pledge allegiance to me. Two courtiers who I previously invited to my court somehow managed to gain control of the duchy of Gelre and Ungvar, meaning that I've got random territories in my empire, which I never set out to conquer or inherit, which are de jure in the HRE and Hungary.

I'd like to know how this happened. I've invited heirs to my court before but they would inherit their role normally and leave my country without defecting to me unless I gave them a position equal to or more important than the one they're inheriting. Perhaps it could be a plot, or another lord put them into the duchy by using their weak claim? But then there's no reason for them to defect to me since I'm not their de jure lord and they have no rank in my empire. We're also not of the same family and I didn't marry any of my family members to them.

This is troublesome since it really annoys the de jure rulers there, who I'd much rather have on my good side, and while the defected lords do sort of like my ruler they have a tendency to add their weight to factions to provoke them into revolting. I can't figure out how to get rid of those lords - either let them go independent (without taking the rest of the independence faction with them) or transfer them to their de jure ruler like you can do with vassals in your own country.

I think the only way to make them leave is to provoke them into revolting by failing to imprison them, then surrender - is there some other way? Sadly there isn't a "sell province" option like in EU3, where the other ruler would almost definitely accept if they felt the territory was rightfully theirs. Thanks for any help.

 

[aniuby]

Amazing, knocked down to the third page in less than a day.

So, anyone else experienced something similar to this? What causes it, and what can be done to get rid of these unwanted defectors other than annoying them into rebelling?

Apparently Pest, the capital of Hungary, is one of those provinces which defected to me. Pretty damn impressive - no wonder the king there is cheesed off!

 

[Comradebot]

With the introduction of factions, anyone with a claim (weak or strong) can be backed by a faction for a title. Its likely you have courtiers with claims, and a faction supports their claim and either the person currently with the title accepts the ultimatum or loses the war, sometimes causing you to gain titles unexpectedly.

Works the other way around, however, and sometimes you can even lose land this way. Recently lost a county in the Duchy of Barcelona because of this, and now its part of the blasted HRE.

 

[Zsrai]

It sounds like factions to install a claimant worked, and you had that claimant landed in your court. It's just one of those things that happens with the faction system now.

 

[mondblut]

Happens all the time to me after patch 1.08. A brother of my old emperor, who was made a bishop somewhere in Egypt, suddenly usurped the "king-bishopric" of Africa (previous emperor their father has created it before giving it away to a vassal, so both had a strong claim). No war, no demesne in dejure, no nothing, just a sudden usurpation out of the blue. I revoked it and given it back to the proper king. 3 years later, the old goat does the same with the "king-bishopric" of Lotharingia. Arrgh.

Then, near the end of his life, old emperor makes an historical if controversial decision to revoke all royal titles (as well as duchies and counties if necessary) from non-dynasts and give them to proper Ylvings. All goes well (other than the -1500 relations to everyone, but the emperor died just in time to have it forgiven and forgotten), yet a couple of years later, the deposed kings of Poland and Croatia, now relegated to mere courtiers, suddenly usurp their royal titles along with capital counties from the Ylving kings, leaving them only with a duchy title and some county grabbed from an unlucky vassal of theirs as they were kicked out from their capitals. WTF?

 

[aniuby]

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realise that the faction system, rather than just plots, could allow unlanded characters to gain land - never mind a duchy.

Well, I guess the main problem is that the new holder of the usurped title ought to be loyal to their original liege rather than defecting to the ruler whose court they're in, since there's seriously no way of getting them out of my empire apart from losing them in a war or provoking them to revolt.

I just like to invite people from all over the world to my court and make use of their talent (and baby-making capability), that's all. If I really wanted to exploit their claims to gain some territory I would have given them some land.