Random title creation and inheritance

[lafo_mamone]

So. This has happened to me twice in the last 2 days, so guessing not a fluke. Just not clear on the mechanics.

I'm playing a Holmgard game starting in 897. Everything is going great and I'm kicking ass. Founded the Kingdom of Gardariki. Also own a good part of Finland. Then randomly my ruler dies and two sons inherit. So far so good.

Problem: one son inherits the Kingdom of Finland (which does not exist as I didn't create it). This has happened twice.

An extra twist that just happened is: I let it slide, as I lost only Ingria out of all the provinces in my kingdom (can get it later if I want to). Now out of nowhere I lose one of my advisers who is the duke of Finland. What happened? He became the new King and took half of Finland with him. The previous king (my brother) is still alive, just that now he is a count.

I'm really stumped with this occurrence. Any ideas/explanations?

 

[JRHaggs]

Elective Gavelkind.

If you hold enough territory to create a title (or more than one) of the same rank as your highest title, upon succession, that title (or those titles, if you have multiple sons) will be created and distributed such that as many sons as possible have a title of equal rank as yours.

The Finland issue suggests to me that your brother (who it sounds like only had the one county) was dwarfed by one of his new Finnish vassals. That vassal probably pressed a faction and your brother acceded to his demands. On the plus side, you can now press your claim for Finland (you should now have a claim on Finland) without having to declare war on your brother.

 

[lafo_mamone]

OK. Guess this is an unreformed pagan thing, as feudals shouldn't be able to create random titles on par with their liege's.

The problem that I have is that the Duke of Finland was a part of my kingdom (so my vassal) and then randomly switched to becoming the King of Finland. I mean, I want to conquer the whole place (again), but I don't want to claim the Finnish throne, as I will probably have elective gavelkind for the foreseeable future. I don't want to lost large parts of my kingdom every time my character gets 2+ sons. And I am pissed that you can't plot to kill your own kids. Like that kind father-son relationship didn't exist (you kids can try and kill you, lol).

 

[Thorkel the Tall]

Well loosing large part of the realm goes with having Elective Gavelind.

Any vasal in de jure Kingdom of Finland will go to that king.

In your situation you could take Finland, revoke tile the of the duchies. To avoid further split do one of two things:
1. transfer all the counts in Finland to duchies within de jure Gardarike (they will then fllow thhis title in the split). Have a single county in finland yourself and your next son will inehrit this and be king of finland with no vasals.

2. Start as above. Land an unwanted son with a single county anywere on the map, and grant him the Kingdom of Findland without any vasals. He is now king of finland and have a god title, and will likeli not inherit.

Otherwise there is many other more brutal ways of securing your realm stability (like getting sons killed). Or you can make sure you dont have more than one son (only have bastards and legitimize sons as needed is a favourite).

My suggestion is: live with it and take the fun ride of having sons of multiple kingdoms. Make sure your sons have a strong power base though.

 

[lafo_mamone]

Thanks for the advice. Helped a lot sorting out the problem. Now I also have the Empire of Russia, so a character can be the King of Tunguska for all I care XD