Rajas of india

[unc15]

Excuse me?

Go back and read those pages.

I did not say "Everybody who doesn't like the idea of an India DLC is an idiot who thinks that magical Aztecs invading Europe is more realistic than adding a historical India."

It is not a mischaracterization (which is not a word) when there are people who actually said that.

Why are you being rude to me for simply relaying information? Is it because I'm not screaming "Death to the India DLC!"?

Oh, please. First of all, mischaracterization is a word, but you can live in your OED fantasy land where you get brownie points for such stupid things. Secondly, you were implying that everyone who is critical of the DLC believes that India was turning it into a "fantasy game." From what I have read, that is simply not the case. Most seem to have other reasons or fears for being critical of it, whether it'd be fears that it won't be polished or historical, or fears that it will be a distraction from developing and deepening the game in Europe.

No, it is not so simple as "wahh wahh ck2 is a fantasy game now."

 

[DarkReborn]

It's like ToG all over again. Thousands of threads of people freaking out about the 867 start and how it would kill the game. Then ToG came out and there was still a tomorrow, no apocalyptic world's end.

For people crying out about the HRE being misrepresented; the whole feudal system is "misrepresented". I'd rather say it's the same old deal; sacrificing accuracy for gameplay. A HRE DLC would work as a small LoR style DLC, but that's it, there's no need on wasting the time and resources of what would be a big DLC a la SoI or ToG on features just in one specific realm, historically important might it be. Paradox never said CK2 was a medieval feudal simulator. It's a medieval grand strategy game that happens to focus on characters, and like any game, it sacrifices accuracy for entertaining gameplay, and if the reviews and copies sold are count for anything, so far it's been tremendously successful.
It's like playing Warcraft 3 and complaining about the human knights wearing no helmet and how that kills the game.

To people complaining about how the performance hit is going to affect low-end machines, remember, Paradox can and has optimized the game's processing speed in the past, so I'd venture say that is not a problem. Also, the problem is not entirely the number of characters, but the number of events those characters get triggered/trigger. A great amount of events are set to trigger to players only, and the AI ones are streamlined enough that they trigger rather fast. So again, relax, Paradox knows their engine and I'm sure as hell they know how to optimize it better than any one of us.

People complaining about India being "out of place". Some people have been continuously complaining about a specific feature on each of the expansions (going back to SoI!!!) that I am not even going to mention it. A bogeyman has been made out of every possible feature (or feature lack) in each of the DLCs.

So calm down, let's wait and see until they release any info on RoI and keep to ourselves any pre-conceived ideas about what it might be until then.

 

[Me_]

It's interesting to compare the outrage here with the much more favorable reaction to the Old Gods, because the same arguments apply to both.

Indeed. I remember when they announced that ToG will have 300 new provinces and expand the map to include a huge area that had only limited contact with the land already covered by the game.

 

[Ixal]

Indeed. I remember when they announced that ToG will have 300 new provinces and expand the map to include a huge area that had only limited contact with the land already covered by the game.

The Muslim world had only limited contact with India?

 

[Me_]

The Muslim world had only limited contact with India?

My point is exactly that the contact was limited to the Muslim world, which is only a part of the map. There's that huge continent in the middle that kind of didn't exactly have much contact with India.
And before anyone brings up Alfred the Great. That's about as good an excuse as adding America because of Leif Ericson.

 

[Ixal]

There's that huge continent in the middle that kind of didn't exactly have much contact with India.

And there is that huge blob in the north which didn't exactly have much contact with Africa. So remove Scandinavia please...

 

[IndigoYeti]

As long as it's not secret bears, I don't care what Paradox release,

And just what is wrong with secret bears ?

 

[Sebor13]

I think that's quite a big mischaracterization, but obviously you want to see it that way so I wont argue with you.

Oh, please. First of all, mischaracterization is a word, but you can live in your OED fantasy land where you get brownie points for such stupid things. Secondly, you were implying that everyone who is critical of the DLC believes that India was turning it into a "fantasy game." From what I have read, that is simply not the case. Most seem to have other reasons or fears for being critical of it, whether it'd be fears that it won't be polished or historical, or fears that it will be a distraction from developing and deepening the game in Europe.

No, it is not so simple as "wahh wahh ck2 is a fantasy game now."

I'll assume you meant OCD, saying random people on the Internet have OCD simply because I was making a remark about how, according to Google Chrome, mischaracterization is not word, is offensive to people who actually have that mental condition so please shut up and go away.

Also, I think I stated that not everybody was saying CK2 would become a fantasy game with India. There are people with well thought out and logical complaints and fears.

And then there are those very angry people being rude to everybody who will talk to them. One of which I will no longer be discussing this topic with.

 

[Morgothic]

I'll assume you meant OCD, saying random people on the Internet have OCD simply because I was making a remark about how, according to Google Chrome, mischaracterization is not word, is offensive to people who actually have that mental condition so please shut up and go away.

Also, I think I stated that not everybody was saying CK2 would become a fantasy game with India. There are people with well thought out and logical complaints and fears.

And then there are those very angry people being rude to everybody who will talk to them. One of which I will no longer be discussing this topic with.

He may have meant OED as in Oxford English Dictionary, no?

 

[balmung60]

Indeed. I remember when they announced that ToG will have 300 new provinces and expand the map to include a huge area that had only limited contact with the land already covered by the game.

No, instead it required loads of research on the existing ~930 provinces, piecing together a partially historical, partially mythical map from the dubious and limited records of the time (and also mashing together the events and rulers of multiple years into that one year), and during which time, feudalism hadn't really caught on in most of Europe yet (certainly not on the scale it had by 1066). Oh, and it added kinds of kinds of Pagans (and Zoroastrians) who only had limited contact at best with most of the land covered by the game.

 

[wilcoxchar]

My point is exactly that the contact was limited to the Muslim world, which is only a part of the map. There's that huge continent in the middle that kind of didn't exactly have much contact with India.
And before anyone brings up Alfred the Great. That's about as good an excuse as adding America because of Leif Ericson.

I guess they shouldn't have included the British Isles then either since they only had direct contact with part of the map.

 

[Maximonium]

Frankly, I think the problems plenty of people seem to be voicing in various threads is the lack of post work on previous features, the lack of fixing various long lasting problems/imbalances, and the sheer favoritism that Paradox plays to one aspect of the DLC, and the face value attention they give to whatever else comes with it.

Look at Old Gods. Was it a well done DLC? Yes it was, however there were plenty of problems with it. While Paradox at least tried to sell the other Pagan faiths, in all actually only the Tengri were the ones to really receive any actual attention, the Slavic's and other pagans getting utterly shafted to the point that post patching needed to buff them and give them a reason to exist as more than Norse blob feeding material. Meanwhile, the Norse lacked any clear balance and were chock full of power gaming mechanics and flavor events, which consistently allowed them to steam roll over many of the local neighbors and the British Isles. The lack of balance and quality testing was so apparent, it really has one questioning if the QA department is either just lazy, biased, or outright incompetent.

Personally, I suspect all the new land will just create a load on older systems, create a new trend of constantly emerging blobs, and the pile of long lasting problems and game mechanics that'll never get any attention, despite the community asking for it. I mean jesus, look how long it took them to add a simple invite all to the plot system! Most mods had that pegged down AGES ago, and it took them this long to get around to it. Protip, when a long complained for feature is one of your selling points for a patch, you're really missing the fricken point, and shouldn't be boasting about it.

 

[CiaoGamer]

I missed that. That is absurd. But what [/i]I[/i] have come across is basically "Europe will suffer as a result, and that sucks because Europe really needs work." I haven't seen anything that counters the objective assessment in that, but rather basically comes down to "I'd rather play in India than a more flavorful HRE." But if that's all the "debate" can come down to, then this whole debate over who's right or wrong is just a dumb waste of time.

You want a counter to your objective assessment? Sure why not. Europe doesn't really need work. Europe(By which I assume you mean the feudal western Christian chunk) is the base product of the game. It functions and functions well (as everyone here with a few couple hundred hours logged on it can attest to.) There is room for addition like a LoR style HRE pack or an expansion on crusading but sure but it by no means "really needs work" like you say.

Anyways that stuff will almost definitely come out eventually, so whilst CK2 is the darling of the moment why not let the devs have some fun, make a fresh new expansion and inject something new into the game? Leave the simple mechanics additions for another day.

 

[Palfouri]

It shames me to see people arguing about something we know little about outside the fact of it's existence. I wonder if the mods feel embarrassed for some of the posters here.

Basically, I don't see what the big deal is, outside perhaps technical issues for people with lower end computers. Why complain as if they're adding 300 provinces and that's it? Why complain as if you already know some of the changes to Europe you've been crying out for won't be incorporated into the patch?

To everybody insisting that Europe is the be all and end all, there's no need to be ethnocentric. For my part, I'm eager to see something new. The German HRE never appealed to me to start with, so I'll not complain if the HRE stays as it is. Frankly, I'm glad to see the devs releasing new stuff at all, it's nothing like how, say, Bethesda treated Skyrim. As long as it's not secret bears, I don't care what Paradox release, they've been the ones working on it, and so far, their DLCs have yet to disappoint me. So I think I'd rather trust their judgment on this, than the judgment of people whose hatred for the very idea of expansion into India has taken over the forum before it's even been officially announced.

It's an eurocentric game made by a eurocentric and highly nationalistic developer. There is a need for ethnocentricism in regards to CK2 because that's what it is about, no matter how far east they push the borders.

If they really wanted to do India they should have given it its own game like Sengoku. Then they could have done it right and given it the focus and accuracy it calls for and everyone would be happy with instead of shoehorning it into a game that already fails on a basic level to represent society and government outside of France and post-conquest England, solely because it's their most popular game and some easily impressed fans will swarm to buy it because they like shiny and new and don't know that there is a point where there is, in fact, too many ingredients in the stew.

 

[Hector of Troy]

I personally liked the new DLC announcement very much. I have no doubt it will be an excellent addition to Crusader Kings 2.

It's true I would have preferred a DLC focusing on the interpersonal elements of the game, but it's not upon me to decide the fate of Crusader Kings 2, it's not my call. Quite frankly, it makes me sick to see people making such a scandal, being so overdramatic and hysterical whenever something which is not of their preference is announced by the developers.

 

[Will Steel]

Long time lurker here. Really excited to play this new expansion, finally I will get a chance to play as someone from my own country.

But really, there are far more naysayers and haters than I have ever seen on any other forums. And that is the case even before the game is released. Some replies are even outright ignorant, for example some people saying that India had no contact with the current map. Or that little minority that took the game's name too seriously and started crying out that this game is named Crusader Kings II and should contain nothing more than Europe, when it has been repeatedly told that the name was chosen because it was good, and if it was not the case the game would've contained nothing but a little coastal patch of Levant.

Thankfully there are also legitimate concerns and intelligent discussions...

It's an eurocentric game made by a eurocentric and highly nationalistic developer. There is a need for ethnocentricism in regards to CK2 because that's what it is about, no matter how far east they push the borders.

With that logic, why should Paradox bother depicting anything the map except Sweden? Or only the city of Stockholm, however it might have been during those ages?

There is a need for ethnocentricism in regards to CK2 because that's what it is about

Lol, I don't know how to even react at this. At this point it is not far from racism. Are you implying that CK2 is not intended to be about anything other than a bunch of Swedish Viking lords fighting each other? Or perhaps some other European guy and his dynasty? If yes, why did they add the whole North Africa and most of Middle East then?

Sigh. I encountered the similar kind of dialogue over in Rome II Total War forums where there were a bunch of people arguing against adding Persia and even a limited part of India to a map, repeatedly shouting "This is ROME Total War and it should focus on Rome only", where it was repeatedly pointed out that by their failed logic, they should not get anything other than the city of Rome.

 

[persianfan247]

I personally liked the new DLC announcement very much. I have no doubt it will be an excellent addition to Crusader Kings 2.

It's true I would have preferred a DLC focusing on the interpersonal elements of the game, but it's not upon me to decide the fate of Crusader Kings 2, it's not my call. Quite frankly, it makes me sick to see people making such a scandal, being so overdramatic and hysterical whenever something which is not of their preference is announced by the developers.

Hear, Hear

 

[Afinati]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-Crusader-Kings-II&sort=replycount&order=desc

For those who keep saying that the negative reactions to RoI are similar to ToG or SoA ... at least on this forum, I gained perspective from this alone. Maybe I'm wrong to in this way (since it's not an indicator of positive/negative content ratios and doesn't actually take into effect ... the content), but here goes. The RoI thread is 1.5 times larger than the one where people levied criticisms against ToG and is 72% the size of the SI one.

What I don't see, and I don't remember having seen at all ... is a huge backlash against SoA. It doesn't bear out in a huge thread, and until this boogeyman popped up here, I didn't even know it was there. I don't buy into the idea that Paradox somehow chose India because of some mass hatred of SoA's attempts to deepen the gameplay experience.

That's just goofy.

 

[Pethom]

Considering that EU4 allows us to play any country in the world and that there is a CK2 -> EU4 converter it doesn't surprise me that the map is being stretched to India. Maybe we soon will se the map stretched all the way to Japan. The 300 new provinces will maybe not all be in and around India. The mod SWMH added some provinces to Europe and maybe Paradox have decided to borrow some ideas from the that mod. I don't mind this change, or even a stretch to Japan if Paradox decides to do that, but would also like to see some patches to improve what we already have.

 

[Pete0714]

It's an eurocentric game made by a eurocentric and highly nationalistic developer. There is a need for ethnocentricism in regards to CK2 because that's what it is about, no matter how far east they push the borders.

.

Seriously. Last I checked , Paradox didn't claim some Eurocentric nationalistic fever. Good God, how about tone down pro euro stuff. If Paradox wants to go against their" Swedish homeland zeal"( as you yourself alone suppose) and try something new, that is their choice to do so. And since the beginning of CK2 they have been expanding the focus beyond Europe, so stop acting like this is that much of a surprise. Besides, if you think the game is such a failure already, why are you complaining.