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Veldmaarschalk

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The problem here isn't India per se.

The problem is that there is so much more about CK2 that should have been focused on first. Deepening game mechanics and the feudal system for one. This is after all a Medieval simulator. As for cosmetics, we could use better graphical representations of our holdings.

Expanding the map shouldn't be that big of a priority right now. As this thread shows, excitement for Medieval India is luke warm at best. The handful of giddy Indians not withstanding.

On a side note: Will the overpowering smell of curry come with this DLC or will it be optional?

Racism is not allowed.
 

Me_

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Umm, ChildeR is aware of this; he is most likely referring to new mechanics added for those new religions.
I'm in no position to claim what someone does or does not know, but the post itself wasn't clear enough for me to suggest that. I agree that I might have been wrong.
People are complaining now but watch as this becomes the most sold CKII DLC :p
Of course it will, most people have no idea what they buy in the DLC until they try it and there are no returns. It doesn't mean it will be the best DLC.
 

Jakalak

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The patches are financed with the DLCs ;)

Or, they're supposed to be.

I'm kind of skeptical that they're just going "Damn! We're all out of cash, there's no point in fixing any of the bugs. ...If only we had some way of drumming up some cash for this patch... I KNOW, INDIA!"

Obviously, DLC generates cash, and no one's arguing that, but I don't think it's as simplistic a relation as you make it out to be.
 

iron0037

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Doesn't mean the displeased cannot voice their displeasure.
People are welcome to voice their displeasure in a civil manner (as most people have done). All I'm saying is that you have to be realistic.
  • Improvements to existing functionality have to be paid for. Therefore, patches have to accompany a DLC.
  • DLCs have to add new yet optional gameplay. They can't easily enhance existing features.
As an example, it would be really difficult to make a Crusades DLC since crusades already exist in the game. You'd have to think of a way to add new crusade features that can be turned off and still maintain game balance. These features would have to be presented in a way that didn't leave players feeling cheated into having to pay for a premium Crusades experience. It's probably doable, but pulling that off is in some sense more difficult than expanding the map. A map expansion means new religions, and there's a established precedent for charging money to access new religions. That money can be used to improve the Crusades for everyone as part of a patch...provided that the forum clamors loudly enough for that enhancement over others.
 

ChildeR

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Uhm, you can already add those in the mod.

Yes, you can already expand the map and add religions, but every time they've added playable religions so far, they've also added (partly) moddable new features for them. Modders can use any of those that fit for e.g. heresies or fantasy religions or whatever.
 

Me_

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Yes, you can already expand the map and add religions, but every time they've added playable religions so far, they've also added (partly) moddable new features for them. Modders can use any of those that fit for e.g. heresies or fantasy religions or whatever.
Fair enough. I didn't understand the intent of the earlier post.
 

Afinati

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Or, they're supposed to be.

I'm kind of skeptical that they're just going "Damn! We're all out of cash, there's no point in fixing any of the bugs. ...If only we had some way of drumming up some cash for this patch... I KNOW, INDIA!"

Obviously, DLC generates cash, and no one's arguing that, but I don't think it's as simplistic a relation as you make it out to be.
I buy into the relationship at least superficially, but from the way I see it ... patching some of this stuff can't be too expensive or time consuming. Fixing decadence has to take nearly years? I don't know, maybe Paradox just doesn't have the focus/interest? It's all so confusing!! Haha
 

balmung60

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Hmm... let's do some math about how much this expands the map in terms of titles.

We're getting 300 new counties (roughly a third of how many we already have), but that's just a start. Extrapolating, this means (in 1066) about 895 new holdings and about 1253 new holding slots (including those already occupied), so that's a lot of barons. It also means about 85 new duchies, about 20 new kingdoms, and about 5 new empires (with fewer if they're hugenormous empires like Byzantium or more if they're tiny empires like Mali and Abyssinia).

So this means that RoI will add about 1580 titles to the game, including uncreated titles and disregarding any tribal or titular titles.
 

sreckom92

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Hmm... let's do some math about how much this expands the map in terms of titles.

We're getting 300 new counties (roughly a third of how many we already have), but that's just a start. Extrapolating, this means (in 1066) about 895 new holdings and about 1253 new holding slots (including those already occupied), so that's a lot of barons. It also means about 85 new duchies, about 20 new kingdoms, and about 5 new empires (with fewer if they're hugenormous empires like Byzantium or more if they're tiny empires like Mali and Abyssinia).

So this means that RoI will add about 1580 titles to the game, including uncreated titles and disregarding any tribal or titular titles.
basically, a full year of development......
 

Me_

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People are welcome to voice their displeasure in a civil manner (as most people have done). All I'm saying is that you have to be realistic.
  • Improvements to existing functionality have to be paid for. Therefore, patches have to accompany a DLC.
  • DLCs have to add new yet optional gameplay. They can't easily enhance existing features.
As an example, it would be really difficult to make a Crusades DLC since crusades already exist in the game. You'd have to think of a way to add new crusade features that can be turned off and still maintain game balance. These features would have to be presented in a way that didn't leave players feeling cheated into having to pay for a premium Crusades experience. It's probably doable, but pulling that off is in some sense more difficult than expanding the map. A map expansion means new religions, and there's a established precedent for charging money to access new religions. That money can be used to improve the Crusades for everyone as part of a patch...provided that the forum clamors loudly enough for that enhancement over others.
The problem here is the fact that if they add India, then it will sit there at the edge of the map even for those without a DLC, so it's adding features for free that people may not want to have. If India is somehow made entirely optional then there is no problem here, and my only gripe is the developement time wasted (in my opinion) on something irrelevant to me. However, recent examples suggest that it will not be the case and India will be there for everyone, whether you buy the DLC or not.
So I may get my better crusades, but at the cost of having to deal with India.
 

aitaituo

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Where is the official announcement? I see no dev started threads and nothing on Johan's or the official PDX Dev twitters.
 

Jakalak

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I buy into the relationship at least superficially, but from the way I see it ... patching some of this stuff can't be too expensive or time consuming. Fixing decadence has to take nearly years? I don't know, maybe Paradox just doesn't have the focus/interest? It's all so confusing!! Haha

Exactly. And, to respond to iron's point, there wasn't some mythical time period before modular DLC that free patches didn't exist (and, no, I'm not playing word games to suggest that, instead, they accompanied large expansions, although that was also sometimes the case). They're not incapable of patching the game unless they get x amount of money (and, if they are, then it's a really odd design limitation imposed by Paradox, but whatever).
 

iron0037

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Things like being able to buy your own wife or kid out of jail, for instance, absent since release, talked about all the time but nothing happens. Think what the depth here really is if you can't do a thing about your own wife being in your own vassal's jail. This is what I'm talking about as things that aren't there. Or heirs of feudal nobles being assigned as chaplain all the time, to the point that when you set up a dynastic marriage between two Catholic kingdoms, the male prince is not unlikely to show up in bishop robes. These two examples should tell you something about the depth of the game.
The inability to get your wife and kids out of jail is obnoxious, and it's slightly unrealistic to have chaplains that aren't bishops. But I would hardly call such items immersion-breaking. I mean, how realistic is it for characters to be transported from England instantly to the head of an army in Persia? Why is the supply limit for a province the same in summer versus winter? There are lots of minor issues like this, some more readily fixable than others. But if you want these quibbles fixed, then like I've been saying, you have to figure out a way to fund it. They've chosen an India DLC since they can't sell you a Court Chaplain DLC.
 

Me_

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Where is the official announcement? I see no dev started threads and nothing on Johan's or the official PDX Dev twitters.
There isn't any. All of this may be an ARG, really.
 

sreckom92

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Where is the official announcement? I see no dev started threads and nothing on Johan's or the official PDX Dev twitters.
I wonder the same....
They said that it will be announced next week, yet here we are....