chegitz guevara

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It would be nice to be able to send raiders and privateers/pirates to plunder your neighbors (and get some loot) without having to declare war. The Mediterranian was a scene of constant piracy and raiding, pretty much until the Americans spanked the Barbary pirates. The border between the Turks and Christians was one of constant war, but not all-out war.
 

Jayavarman

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Mad King James said:
I wrote a big proposal on this, but I can't find it :/
Alas. I wish there was a remedy to the spiral of threads that bring up the same subject over and over again while previous proposals are buried only to be possibly rehashed again. :(
 

Jayavarman

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Mad King James said:
It wouldn't be so bad if we had searching
Some people do not search, especially for someone else's ideas. ;)
 

Van der Gent

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Jayavarman said:
Some people do not search, especially for someone else's ideas. ;)

:rofl:
 

Zanza

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I think pirates should be more abstracted than they were in EU2. Not real ships on the map, but merely a "piracy activity" for certain areas. You would counter that not by sending fleet units, but by using a system similar to HoI2's escorts.
 

stnylan

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Zanza said:
I think pirates should be more abstracted than they were in EU2. Not real ships on the map, but merely a "piracy activity" for certain areas. You would counter that not by sending fleet units, but by using a system similar to HoI2's escorts.

Oh I don't know. You can have a squadron of ships based at Port X, given the mission of 'Anti-Piracy patrols' in Sea Area Y, and this would depress all pirate activity in that area.

Of course that is very HoI2-ish, but in all seriousness I would like to see some aspects of HoI2 naval warfare brought over to Eu3.
 

George LeS

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The economic effects of navies is something EU2 lacks, severely. Thus, e.g., captures of treasure ships are reflected only by event.

An extreme example is in the Napoleon's Ambition scenario. At the start, there is a big French fleet in the Atlantic, heading home, with about 40 empty transports. This clearly is replicating the vital convoy, around which the 1st of June campaign was fought. This campaign ended in a severe tactical defeat, but a strategic success for the French; they got kicked in the battle, but the convoy got through. But of course, it doesn't really mean anything in the game; all the RN can possibly do is what they did, pound a bunch of French ships. There is no stategic/economic consequence beyond that.
 

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chegitz guevara said:
It would be nice to be able to send raiders and privateers/pirates to plunder your neighbors (and get some loot) without having to declare war. The Mediterranian was a scene of constant piracy and raiding, pretty much until the Americans spanked the Barbary pirates. The border between the Turks and Christians was one of constant war, but not all-out war.
the french were the ones who spanked the barbary pirates. we didn't even stop paying them tribute.
 

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Jayavarman said:
Alas. I wish there was a remedy to the spiral of threads that bring up the same subject over and over again while previous proposals are buried only to be possibly rehashed again. :(
there is. the mods can splice threads together. if I were a mod, I'd splice like mad.
 

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Mad King James said:
It wouldn't be so bad if we had searching
go to google


"I'm searching for whatever" site:forum.paradoxplaza.com

It ain't hard.
 
M

Mowers

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I would like to see a better model for naval "raiding" or what ever term you wish to use. Specifically reduce the number of naval regions, this would help the AI and make MP naval wars easier.

The problem with the naval game is the level of micro management due to the number of sea regions. There are simply too many. In MP one is very hard pressed to run a naval campaign in a particular ocean whilst conducting other tasks. Slowing down is not an option because it would require a very slow speed that would make MP too slow for other players.

The naval game over burdens players as it stands. Less sea regions would make it far easier to carry out basic tasks such as blockade, patrol and transport at MP speed without losing track. With 6 fleets on a global level I havnt got time to hand monitor each one and with large numbers of regions this is what is required.

The second reason is that less sea regions would enable the AI to be better able to conduct naval campaigns. I have yet to see an effective naval AI in any paradox game - not because paradox dont know what they are doing - but simply because they have too many regions for the AI to cope given a resonable programing time investment.

Better naval MP game
Better Naval AI game
Easier to program
 

Mork

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On that note, I would really love production (and trade) routes, which could be intercepted by navies (only some % of said production/trade will go through).
 
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Yes, reworking the way pirates work is a must. Having a few small pirate fleets appear from time to time is necessary, as sometimes some pirates had to be chased down, but applying a variying degree of lost trade/income from the colonies or from foreign trade is enough for most of the time.

Off course, the presence of warships in the area should decrease that loss, but it shouldn't be as simple (in the sense all-or-nothing) a thing to station one galley in every coastal sea-zone around colonies.


Also, allowing your ships to hunt other countries' merchantmen without even being at war is a must. Some diplomatic action against particular countries, that would decrease relations and give a cb on you to the targetted country, could do the trick. After all, it was the cause of many arguments throughout history, the accusation to let one's own militaries conduct piracy.
 

Gwalcmai

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If there were trade routes in the game, then you could have pirates attacking those routes, hurting the centers of trade at both ends (or whatever trade routes ran between).
 

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Ambassador said:
Off course, the presence of warships in the area should decrease that loss, but it shouldn't be as simple (in the sense all-or-nothing) a thing to station one galley in every coastal sea-zone around colonies.
In most of the worlds seas galleys should be only so much floating wreckage anyways.
 

George LeS

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Mowers said:
I would like to see a better model for naval "raiding" or what ever term you wish to use. Specifically reduce the number of naval regions, this would help the AI and make MP naval wars easier.

The problem with the naval game is the level of micro management due to the number of sea regions. There are simply too many. In MP one is very hard pressed to run a naval campaign in a particular ocean whilst conducting other tasks. Slowing down is not an option because it would require a very slow speed that would make MP too slow for other players.

The naval game over burdens players as it stands. Less sea regions would make it far easier to carry out basic tasks such as blockade, patrol and transport at MP speed without losing track. With 6 fleets on a global level I havnt got time to hand monitor each one and with large numbers of regions this is what is required.

The second reason is that less sea regions would enable the AI to be better able to conduct naval campaigns. I have yet to see an effective naval AI in any paradox game - not because paradox dont know what they are doing - but simply because they have too many regions for the AI to cope given a resonable programing time investment.

Better naval MP game
Better Naval AI game
Easier to program

IMO, you're right about the problem, but not the solution. To get rid of the burden on the player, remove control. Once a fleet sets out, you shouldn't be able to change its course/mission until either it returns, or it contacts the enemy. That, in itself, would get rid of much of the problem.

"If there's no solution, there's no problem." -- James Burham.
 

unmerged(6303)

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Mowers said:
I would like to see a better model for naval "raiding" or what ever term you wish to use. Specifically reduce the number of naval regions, this would help the AI and make MP naval wars easier.

The problem with the naval game is the level of micro management due to the number of sea regions. There are simply too many. In MP one is very hard pressed to run a naval campaign in a particular ocean whilst conducting other tasks. Slowing down is not an option because it would require a very slow speed that would make MP too slow for other players.

The naval game over burdens players as it stands. Less sea regions would make it far easier to carry out basic tasks such as blockade, patrol and transport at MP speed without losing track. With 6 fleets on a global level I havnt got time to hand monitor each one and with large numbers of regions this is what is required.

The second reason is that less sea regions would enable the AI to be better able to conduct naval campaigns. I have yet to see an effective naval AI in any paradox game - not because paradox dont know what they are doing - but simply because they have too many regions for the AI to cope given a resonable programing time investment.

Better naval MP game
Better Naval AI game
Easier to program


This would also make it easier to model the economic effect of navies, since tracing supply routes and trade routes would become feasible.
 

unmerged(6303)

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George LeS said:
IMO, you're right about the problem, but not the solution. To get rid of the burden on the player, remove control. Once a fleet sets out, you shouldn't be able to change its course/mission until either it returns, or it contacts the enemy. That, in itself, would get rid of much of the problem.

If all the interesting decisions made by the player happen at one level of abstraction, I don't see why you should model it at a lower level of abstraction.