Radar Towers

[MTGian]

Any thoughts on radar towers in HOI4? I think common perpection today was that it was a huge mistake by the Germans not to target British radar towers to nullify the advantage that radar provided. So, how should this be modelled in the game? If you research radar, do you just get the same advantage that the Brits did? Do we assume that everyone would make the mistake that Goring made and not target the radar towers?

Also, I am watching WW II in Color (I don't know if this is an accurate source). They stated that the Germans had significant numerical superiority in the Battle of Britain. It was not close. The impression that I got was that without radar, the Brits lose. So, that one decision by Goring may have swung the war. It seems like such an idiotic decision in retrospect...

Fighter Pilot: The British always seem to know we are coming! What gives!?
Goring: No idea. Keep fighting!
Fighter Pilot: I noticed something else odd...their entire coast has radar towers. Maybe connected?
Goring: Surely not! Ignore those. They are clearly for decoration.

Ummm, yeah. The same program stated that Germans had researched radar too, so it wasn't like they were clueless about what it did.

 

[emperor_tiberius]

would be nice, but this far in development, if it's not in now, it aint coming at release

 

[joerd9]

I remember reading (a long time ago, so not sure...) that they initially did target some part of the Home Chain. However it proved to be difficult to knock a hole in the line due to a) overlapping ranges, i.e. redundant coverage of the radar towers and b) the construction method of the towers (steel grid) made them rather resilient to near misses. You had to score a direct hit. And c) the multiple changes in campaign objectives.

 

[TheOrangeGuy]

I read, probably on this forum, a lot of reading here.. That the radar was somewhat helpful for the Germans, they wanted to destroy Britain's fighters, and every time they crossed the straights they showed up

 

[Axe99]

Any thoughts on radar towers in HOI4? I think common perpection today was that it was a huge mistake by the Germans not to target British radar towers to nullify the advantage that radar provided. So, how should this be modelled in the game? If you research radar, do you just get the same advantage that the Brits did? Do we assume that everyone would make the mistake that Goring made and not target the radar towers?

Also, I am watching WW II in Color (I don't know if this is an accurate source). They stated that the Germans had significant numerical superiority in the Battle of Britain. It was not close. The impression that I got was that without radar, the Brits lose. So, that one decision by Goring may have swung the war. It seems like such an idiotic decision in retrospect...

Fighter Pilot: The British always seem to know we are coming! What gives!?
Goring: No idea. Keep fighting!
Fighter Pilot: I noticed something else odd...their entire coast has radar towers. Maybe connected?
Goring: Surely not! Ignore those. They are clearly for decoration.

Ummm, yeah. The same program stated that Germans had researched radar too, so it wasn't like they were clueless about what it did.

Been a little while since I read/watched anything relating to this, but sketchy memories floating out are:

- The Germans did have a go at the radar towers, but they were very easy to repair.

- As joerd9 mentions, there were quite a few (tough) towers with overlapping ranges, and from memory two systems (chain home high and chain home low? Argh, can't remember the names, sorry), so knocking a significant hole was tough. They were also fairly quick to repair as well (like the airfields).

- Germany definitely had a numerical superiority in pilots and aircraft at the start, but it's important to keep in mind that the short range of the 109 meant that the Brits were able to leverage their numbers over the battlefield better (as well as have far better pilot recovery, which combined with them out-producing Germany for aircraft meant that the pressure was on Germany to pull off a win early).

- (This memory's particularly sketchy, take with grain of salt, hopefully someone with better performing neurons will chime in) - the Germans underestimated the Brits, but the Brits (at least initially) overestimated the Germans (probably based on their recent experiences in France), so while it was a tough battle, and the Britain was under huge amounts of pressure, they were never as close to breaking as was initially thought during the period and the earlier post-war histories.

 

[Joe32320]

Any thoughts on radar towers in HOI4? I think common perpection today was that it was a huge mistake by the Germans not to target British radar towers to nullify the advantage that radar provided. So, how should this be modelled in the game? If you research radar, do you just get the same advantage that the Brits did? Do we assume that everyone would make the mistake that Goring made and not target the radar towers?

RADAR is a province, or air region bonus, as in previous HOI, so in the Battle of Britain scenario, the South of England will be UK controlled, and thus only its radar will be of use in that region, of course the same is then true later on when Britain and the US bomb Germany later on in the war.

Also, I am watching WW II in Color (I don't know if this is an accurate source). They stated that the Germans had significant numerical superiority in the Battle of Britain. It was not close. The impression that I got was that without radar, the Brits lose. So, that one decision by Goring may have swung the war. It seems like such an idiotic decision in retrospect...

Fighter Pilot: The British always seem to know we are coming! What gives!?
Goring: No idea. Keep fighting!
Fighter Pilot: I noticed something else odd...their entire coast has radar towers. Maybe connected?
Goring: Surely not! Ignore those. They are clearly for decoration.

Germany's advantage in planes is often overstated, in reality it was much closer because 1) The numbers the British, and Americans though Germany could build was massively overestimated, the British built more fighters than Germany during the battle, 2) Britain was fighting over home soil, so the planes they did have could scramble, fight, return to base, refuel, and be back in battle much sooner than a German plane crossing the channel, in effect increasing their numbers, plus pilots bailing out over Britain could be back with their units by the days end. 3) Related to 1) and 2), Britain was able to maintain its Squadrons with a near full complement of planes throughout the battle, the German Squadrons often suffered from lack of spares and breakdowns etc, in part due from fighting away from their home bases. 4) Radar and the Dowding system of course.

Not to understate the victory, and certainly not to understate the efforts of Fighter Command and the British in general, both in the battle itself, but also critically in preparation, the Battle of Britain just wasn't as close as it is often portrayed because of those factors.

Ummm, yeah. The same program stated that Germans had researched radar too, so it wasn't like they were clueless about what it did.

The difference between Britains and Germany's development of RADAR is quite interesting, Germany at first was looking to use radar, and other forms of electronic direction finding (See Battle of the Beams) in an offensive role, so they kind of missed the full defensive potential of RADAR. The other really key part, and really what RADAR the weapon it was for the British was the Dowding system, and the system of information control which allowed a central command to direct the battle with almost up to the minute information, allowing just the right number of planes to engage in battle and not over extend themselves.

 

[Denkt]

I think they increase your air and naval detection in the state they are in.