Race

[Meanmanturbo]

Ah yes, the classic alliance.

It sort of makes sense that an organization opposed to contraceptives and abortion would also be opposed to forced sterilizations now that I think about it.

 

[Skales]

It sort of makes sense that an organization opposed to contraceptives and abortion would also be opposed to forced sterilizations now that I think about it.

Wait, you are supposed to be ideologically consistent in your views? wtf I thought everyone just made it up as they went along.

 

[klopkr]

I think it would be interesting if cultures could have some kind of state tolerance level and race being being a modifier to that tolerance based on certain nations views.

So in the US they'd group a lot more european people into white over time. In europe their racial views would be balkanized for europeans people with some preferences and general for non white people. Then in other countries they'd have some similar suites. China would balkanize it's own ethnicities but see outsiders as 'one race'.

The underlying ethnicities would still be there but the state view on groupings of ethnicities would very historically often making the views towards the out groups similar.

Some political parties (if readded) should have laws or racial views attached to them so if they come into power they'll implement them. This goes from less racist views all the way to 'only my ethnicity matters'.

Having said that I would be careful giving any bonuses to being racist beyond easily impoverishing certain groups (is that even desirable in vicky3?). Race should play a large role in pops motivations rather than governments. There are a number of genocides in this era but I think they shouldn't be gamified if ever represented.

Aside:

I know paradox does not depict genocide in its games and treads VERY carefully but I think tasteful representation would be even better and more historic. I would be very keen on an event explaining some of the anti native america policies in the americas (reserves, residential schools, killing the buffalo to starve the plains natives). These events should explain the circumstance neutrally, explain the tragedy, and give no gameplay bonuses and happen without player intervention and largely serve to educate players of some of the tragedies of history. The only real gameplay effect would be the removal of some pops. The same I think should apply to the armenian genocide. If the ottomans are in a war in the 1900's then an event should disporise (and remove ) some armenian pops and explain the actual tragedy of what happened. In namibia and south africa and belgian congo and africa in general there should be lots of information about the real and tragic situations that happened. Hell I'd go so far as to make whoever owns the congo have to deal with an ingame crisis over their inherent brutality and have the state recognize and reorganise the situation at some point.

If done solemnly it could actually go a great way of educating people about these tragedies, represent real history, and not encourage or give the players any dopamine for intentionally playing evil. Surprisingly few people know about the genocides preceding world war 2 and this game is the perfect conduite to real education in the community.

If you depict it very very well and point out the horror and tragedy enough tbh it would really really anger the very real and very despicable portion of paradox's fan base that literally are pro genocide. I think pushing those assholes away from playing is a good thing for the brand in general.

Don't just be neutral to genocide. Be anti-genocide.

 

[Puking Panda]

I think it would be interesting if cultures could have some kind of state tolerance level and race being being a modifier to that tolerance based on certain nations views.

So in the US they'd group a lot more european people into white over time. In europe their racial views would be balkanized for europeans people with some preferences and general for non white people. Then in other countries they'd have some similar suites. China would balkanize it's own ethnicities but see outsiders as 'one race'.

The underlying ethnicities would still be there but the state view on groupings of ethnicities would very historically often making the views towards the out groups similar.

Some political parties (if readded) should have laws or racial views attached to them so if they come into power they'll implement them. This goes from less racist views all the way to 'only my ethnicity matters'.

Having said that I would be careful giving any bonuses to being racist beyond easily impoverishing certain groups (is that even desirable in vicky3?). Race should play a large role in pops motivations rather than governments. There are a number of genocides in this era but I think they shouldn't be gamified if ever represented.

Aside:

I know paradox does not depict genocide in its games and treads VERY carefully but I think tasteful representation would be even better and more historic. I would be very keen on an event explaining some of the anti native america policies in the americas (reserves, residential schools, killing the buffalo to starve the plains natives). These events should explain the circumstance neutrally, explain the tragedy, and give no gameplay bonuses and happen without player intervention and largely serve to educate players of some of the tragedies of history. The only real gameplay effect would be the removal of some pops. The same I think should apply to the armenian genocide. If the ottomans are in a war in the 1900's then an event should disporise (and remove ) some armenian pops and explain the actual tragedy of what happened. In namibia and south africa and belgian congo and africa in general there should be lots of information about the real and tragic situations that happened. Hell I'd go so far as to make whoever owns the congo have to deal with an ingame crisis over their inherent brutality and have the state recognize and reorganise the situation at some point.

If done solemnly it could actually go a great way of educating people about these tragedies, represent real history, and not encourage or give the players any dopamine for intentionally playing evil. Surprisingly few people know about the genocides preceding world war 2 and this game is the perfect conduite to real education in the community.

If you depict it very very well and point out the horror and tragedy enough tbh it would really really anger the very real and very despicable portion of paradox's fan base that literally are pro genocide. I think pushing those assholes away from playing is a good thing for the brand in general.

Don't just be neutral to genocide. Be anti-genocide.

The divide in America was more between Protestant vs Catholic as opposed to racial differences. It was also a two-way street. Irish in particular were initially quite insular as a community. Same goes for Italians. They had their own churches, were more likely to vote as a bloc and started their own ethnic businesses. What made them assimilate more into a broader WASP culture was for a significant part due to the Great Migration. The Great Migration created racial tensions, particularly in the cities, between Whites of all ethnicities versus the recently arrived African Americans from the South which in turn created more solidarity between Whites.

Also I don't really feel like railroading countries into having genocides makes sense either. The game is inherently about alternative history, not a interactive history documentary. If I played the Ottoman Empire and I wanted to create a Turko-Hellenist system based on the Austrian Empire I should not end up with an Armenian Genocide. Paradox should either make it realistic or sweep it under the rug like they do with HoI 4. Either way it's gonna be highly controversial.

Also I don't think you really have a good idea how pops work. Let's say whatever kind of ethnic displacement is perpetuated by a government. The benefit that government experiences is likely inherent in the fact that the pops they displaced will no longer be able to for example; create unrest, start rebellions or claim territory. Of course this should be accompanied with massive increases of threat and negative relations from other countries and unrest among other minority pops who will then try and work with these foreign countries as well as other internal political groups who are against it.