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NewbieOne

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Europe's landed women in the middle ages did not send their young husbands to the Templars to become celibate and live far away.

The purpose of getting married was 1) to provide a successor, 2) if marrying a man — to get a protector.

Neither did kings send away their young sons who had infant babies and young wives.

This game has it so backwards. It's outright retarded.

This issue has been known for so long, so how about you guys in the dev team get your act together and fix it?

Make it a career choice for currently unmarried people, and, if you want, with a small chance for married celibates and married people without children (especially older, with infertile or celibate wives etc.).
 
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Zohtun

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Most of them aren't there willingly. They were forced to take the vows by their jailers or else were banished there by enraged lieges. At least, that's what seems to be the most common cause of them joining the Templars in my game, especially the married ones. I've not yet had a married person ask me for permission to join the templars, only those who are already monks or are unwed.
 

NewbieOne

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Most of them aren't there willingly. They were forced to take the vows by their jailers or else were banished there by enraged lieges. At least, that's what seems to be the most common cause of them joining the Templars in my game, especially the married ones. I've not yet had a married person ask me for permission to join the templars, only those who are already monks or are unwed.

Most weren't jailed, believe me. They result from the same event in which your kids — and any other courtier — asks you to allow him to leave your court join a military order.

Married people keep asking me all the time, including in some cases all of a king's four sons or something else like that. Not just in my current game but also several other games.
 

vandevere

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Most weren't jailed, believe me. They result from the same event in which your kids — and any other courtier — asks you to allow him to leave your court join a military order.

Married people keep asking me all the time, including in some cases all of a king's four sons or something else like that. Not just in my current game but also several other games.

I've had that happen to me two. One of my Ruelrs had six sons, and each one of them, married, with little children, asked to join a Holy Order.

First, if I say no-and if they have little kids, I *WILL* say no-that's 100 piety for every "No". But after I say no, they behave live the kids from the Simpsons...

"Arewethereyetarewethereyetarewethereyet..."

Six sons constantly pestering you to let them join a holy order will drain *ALL* of your piety in less than a year...
 

Zohtun

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Land them. They shut up if you land them. Stick them as the baron of some place you don't care about and forget about them.

If you're under gavelkind, stick them in a bishropic to permanently shut them up. Or just say "yes" and let them bugger off. It's not like they just stick the kids in the orphanage, they DO leave them with their mother and loving grandpa. Or else take them with them.
 

Talq

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Nonetheless, they shouldn't be asking if they are married, let alone consort of a ruler. As it stands all the holy order courts are full of people who shouldn't be there, and have no practical use.
 

NewbieOne

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I've had that happen to me two. One of my Ruelrs had six sons, and each one of them, married, with little children, asked to join a Holy Order.

First, if I say no-and if they have little kids, I *WILL* say no-that's 100 piety for every "No". But after I say no, they behave live the kids from the Simpsons...

"Arewethereyetarewethereyetarewethereyet..."

Six sons constantly pestering you to let them join a holy order will drain *ALL* of your piety in less than a year...

That's actually like it, yes.

Land them. They shut up if you land them. Stick them as the baron of some place you don't care about and forget about them.

If you're under gavelkind, stick them in a bishropic to permanently shut them up. Or just say "yes" and let them bugger off. It's not like they just stick the kids in the orphanage, they DO leave them with their mother and loving grandpa. Or else take them with them.

We aren't talking about ways of coping with a broken mechanism, we're addressing what's broken in it and proposing a fix. Why are you so defensive as to create consecutive so-so explanations/rationales to justify leaving the mechanic unchanged? It doesn't benefit you in any way, either way, so what's the deal?

For the record, I always allow them to join if they are bachelors. But married people with small children should not be asking to become celibate monks (exception: like 1 in 1000 with special permission from the Pope and consent from his wife to let him go and promise from his brother/uncle/friend/liege to take care of the kids, then only just maybe, even as per mediaeval Catholic theology). It's simply as anti-immersive as married chaplains.

Nonetheless, they shouldn't be asking if they are married, let alone consort of a ruler. As it stands all the holy order courts are full of people who shouldn't be there, and have no practical use.

Once upon a time, a lot of time ago, people, myself included, noted how then-orders were essentially social clubs of random-generated Levantine gentlemen. We suggested recruiting the dignitaries at least from existing noble families on the map. That was cool and dandy, except P-dox didn't restrict the manpool to bachelors (though married people with grown children were historically allowed to join monastic orders with their spouse's consent).

Maybe what's needed is to combine random generation with restricted recruitment of bachelors only.

In any case:

1. No married people*, but especially:
2. No people who have small children to care for. This was a biggie.

(* Spouse's consent to celibacy also worked, but it may be too much hassle to implement it to be worth it as opposed to the approximation in the form of banning all married people or all married people who have small children.)

***

Alternatively, there could be a way of joining the Templars and others that's open to married people — but without removing them from succession. As was historically the case. Before they could become a high dignitary in the order, however (master, commander, councillor), they would need to become celibate. If they were allowed to become celibate. Otherwise maybe lead armies like they were trained to do but no full membership and formal functions.
 
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Rags17

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Seriously - point has been noted and they are presumably working on it. Until then - dead easy to mod, just add the appropriate lines in the soa_holy_order_events.txt file.

Problem solved.
 

NewbieOne

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Seriously - point has been noted

Proof?

and they are presumably working on it.

Some base for that presumption?

Until then - dead easy to mod

I bought a game, not a modding platform, I don't need to mod. I want vanilla to make a modicum of sense and be generally free of substantial immersion killers.

just add the appropriate lines in the soa_holy_order_events.txt file.

Nonetheless thanks for the suggestion, will look into the file.

Problem solved.

The opposite.