Quick Qing Qs

[JMKIN]

Hey Y'all,

Couple questions about my Qing game. It's 1518 or so, and I'm about ready for my third war with Ming. I was able to snipe the Qing provinces during a rebellion in the first war, and release a handful of Shun provinces in my second. I'm now about 4 mil tech ahead and hoping to break them with this one.

1. I took exploration as my first idea group to throttle Muscovy. (mission succeeded, thanks to gross colony border gore and stable Kazan + Oriat). But now I'm stuck on my second: Humanism or Admin? The former seems like a better choice for overall stability and future westernization, but the latter seems better for expansion and cheaper tech (plus that -core creation synergy with Qing national ideas is alluring.)

2. Speaking of westernization: where's my best bet to find a western power? Island hop all the way to Africa? Crawl down the pacific coast to South America? And when should I aim to be westernized by?

3. Are there really any good allies for me? I've been allied to Japan for a while but they're pretty worthless and will soon become a target of mine. No major Indian power yet, and even though Timmy is rivaled to Ming, the distance+religion+competing great power Malus seems too big a barrier. Oriat+Ming+Muscovy are my rivals; I'm slowly eating Korea.

Thanks! (Qing is a super fun play, BTW)

 

[KungDenzel]

1. I recommend Admin, it will give you dirt cheap coring with your NI, and also since Qing NI includes no reinforcement cost for troops including mercs, the merc ideas in admin shines even more. Later on you will probably need religious to expand beyond Ming so humanism will be unnessescary.

2. I crawled down the coast to Mexico, I am not sure what is faster but since island hopping to africa involves some tropical islands on the way I think Mexico is faster. I was done about 1600 and I could have been faster.

3. Oriat is the only worthy ally early game, where you are now they are no longer of any use and no other ally in the area is of any real use either. I never used any allies all game since noone is strong enough to be a threat when you block Muscovy and roll up the rest of Asia. Also I assume you are going to release vassal Xi and Zhou aswell and keep them that way until westernized so that takes up most the diplo slots

 

[rayyuri]

1. I think humanism is better if you westernize. Admin ideas don't help you much except the -25% core cost... You can acquire lands by vassal feeding so it doesn't matter that much.
2. Many ways:
1) conquer a way through Russia and reach Sweden. You can do this when Russia is attacked by a major power such as Ottomans or Commonwealth.
2) Colonize/conquer Taiwan -- Somewhere near Malacca -- Maldives -- Islands east of Madagascar -- Cape -- Kongo -- Brazil (you can totally avoid tropical colonization in this way)
3) Colonize/conquer Kamchatka -- Alaska -- California -- Mexico
Both 2) and 3) can allow complete westernization before 1600. I like option 2 because this will give you African colonies, which grant you more merchants through trade companies. They are better than worthless oversea colonial nations!
3. You can ally Oriat in the early game. You don't need alliances after you westernize.

 

[Oryxslayer]

I currently have a Qing game going, and maybe its because I have different play style, but I went a different route.

1. I haven't taken explo, but that's mainly because Muscovy got beat up by Lithuania in my game. The two idea groups that you need to take at some time as qing are religious and influence. Influence is incredibly handy because you will mainly vassal feeding when you conquer Ming and Indochina. Religious because the CB is awesome when combined with Confucianism which nobody besides yourself will be practicing after 1600, and because Confucians can't convert anything without the extra missionary strength.
2. Because I didn't take explo, I went an alternative route. I used trade conflict CBs and co-belligerents to grab isolated ports and then stole Suez. I cored a north Africa province and westernized off of castillian oran. This route is not the easiest, however it did go nicely with religious because the ports were future launching points into Arabia, SEasia, and India, as well as a future Mameluke vassal. The easiest route however is colonize Alaska and then mexico. The pacific and Indian islands all have tropical which is absolutely horrible without decent diplo tech.
3. After you take several large bites out of ming, you shouldn't need any allies. If you really need an ally malacca/ayuthuya (whichever is dominant) is a good long term ally who will help you destroy ming.